Kohler is mighty proud of their ring sets...

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Was thinking of picking up a set for when i have my M12 apart for a new governor gear next week...

 

Now im thinking it'll be fine...yikes

[tunahead72 2,424]

This doesn't help much, but PartsTree has become one of the more expensive sources for genuine Kohler parts.  You might try OPE Engines, usually a good bit less expensive, they also carry Stens parts if you're so inclined:

 

Kohler Engines and Parts Store, OPEengines.com

 

[ebinmaine 67,593]

4 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

Stens parts

That was gonna be my suggestion as well. 

Them or another reputable aftermarket company.  

 

[Achto 27,601]

8 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Now im thinking it'll be fine...yikes

 

The old rings will probably be fine as long as you do not have to remove the piston. If you pull the piston out of the cylinder, the original rings will never seat again and you will have an oil burner.

 

Here is one source for rings, OEM and after market. Note: I have not yet had an issue with the Rotary rings

 

http://psep.biz/store/kohler_piston_rings.htm 

 

Also complete rebuild kits.

 

http://psep.biz/store/kohler_rebuild_kits.htm

Edited December 30, 2021 by Achto

[953 nut 55,298]

From time to time you will find listings on  for NOS Kohler parts at reasonable prices. Smeone clearing out a shop that has closed down liquidating inventory.

[rmaynard 15,510]

The last set of Kohler rings that I purchased was about 5 years. The price was nowhere near those prices. They were made in Mexico. I'm pretty sure they came from eBay, but I don't remember who the seller was.

[76c12091520h 3,621]

Let me know what you need, I have over 75+ sets on hand, nowhere near those prices.

[Wheelhorse#1 1,667]

Flea bay if you have the time to look.You Also have to be careful because some try to sell NOS but not always complete set.

 

Thanks for the links

Edited December 30, 2021 by Wheelhorse#1

[RED-Z06 2,221]

15 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

This doesn't help much, but PartsTree has become one of the more expensive sources for genuine Kohler parts.  You might try OPE Engines, usually a good bit less expensive, they also carry Stens parts if you're so inclined:

 

Kohler Engines and Parts Store, OPEengines.com

 

Im a stens dealer...ive about given up on them, seems like everything i need when ordering is out of stock or 30% more than elsewhere...they used to be main distributor 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Looks like i won't know what rings/piston is in it until i have them out...they had 2 styles, i can't have this engine on the bench 2 weeks so, i guess the old rings will have to do, its only got 151 hours on it, but i usually like to do new rings if i have them out.  Its got to go down to the bare block to do the governor gear 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,667]

Speaking of different styles of pistons.Are the NOS, old style better than the new style?

It looks like the old style had more rings than the new style.Is that correct?
 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Wheelhorse#1

[RED-Z06 2,221]

1 hour ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

Speaking of different styles of pistons.Are the NOS, old style better than the new style?

It looks like the old style had more rings than the new style.Is that correct?
 

I think the old style used a 2pc oil ring and the newer mahle style uses the 3pc oil ring.  Other ring details may vary.

[oliver2-44 9,759]

7 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

  Its got to go down to the bare block to do the governor gear 

Can you push the piston and rod to the top of the cylinder and have room to get the crank and cam out?  That way the rings never come out of the cylinder

[RED-Z06 2,221]

23 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Can you push the piston and rod to the top of the cylinder and have room to get the crank and cam out?  That way the rings never come out of the cylinder

Shouldn't be an issue, the rings rotate in the ring lands while running, and I have a glaze buster and ring installer and compressor..no reason, if the gaps are in spec it wont go back in fine, but to answer, no i don't think the crank will clear the rod.

[Wheelhorse#1 1,667]

9 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Shouldn't be an issue, the rings rotate in the ring lands while running,

Thats what I read too.So why is it recommended to stagger ring end gaps if the rings move around wile running anyway ?

Edited December 31, 2021 by Wheelhorse#1

[pacer 3,173]

38 minutes ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

.So why is it recommended to stagger ring end gaps if the rings move around wile running anyway ?

 

 I too question that... FWIW, I had just bought a D200 with K532 nonrunning. Get it home and just do enough to see if the engine was OK. Pretty quickly it was running and seemed OK, so I air the tires to do a ck on rest of tractor. After 3-4 minutes smoke starts boiling out.... oh great, I gotta go in the engine.

Pull the eng, and right away I see the pistons are .020, but they are really clean and very snug in the cyl and walls

are pristine ... What the ???? Pop the first piston out and the rings are 'stacked' in a straight line in the bottom of the cylinder (remember this is a horizontal twin) -- second piston same way. Measure the cyl, dead on spec for .020 and clean, this engine was obviously freshly rebuilt and was assembled that way!! So, what with the very inexpensive piston/rings on the bay I order both up. Install taking care to not get any gap in the bottom of the bore. That was some 5 yrs ago and its never smoked since and. So I have serious doubts on the rings moving around in the cyl..... 

 

Figure the PO had it done and after seeing the heavy smoke set the tractor aside til I come along several yrs later and get that rebuilt engine on a pretty nice D200 for $150

[RED-Z06 2,221]

1 hour ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

Thats what I read too.So why is it recommended to stagger ring end gaps if the rings move around wile running anyway ?

Its just best to prevent all the gaps from lining up on purpose..no doubt, much like the planets they will eventually line up momentarily while running.

[Searcher60 209]

20 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Its just best to prevent all the gaps from lining up on purpose..no doubt, much like the planets they will eventually line up momentarily while running.

 

 

I think if you investigate further, you will find that pistons rings do not rotate once properly seated. However, if they do not seat, they do in fact rotate as they are not seated. The minute ring wear and piston cylinder wear produces a slightly out of round cylinder which the rings seat or seal to. If the rings do not seat however, they will rotate on the piston, and never really seat or seal to the out of round cylinder bore. Rings may rotate slightly until they seat. If rings do not seat, the engine will use oil. And, my experience has been they will never seat. It is really important that ring tolerances, cylinder taper, and honing, be done correctly. Maximum spec. ring end gap does not seem to affect oil consumption in single cylinder rebuilds. By, if the rings do not seat, it is bad news.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

3 hours ago, Searcher60 said:

 

 

I think if you investigate further, you will find that pistons rings do not rotate once properly seated. However, if they do not seat, they do in fact rotate as they are not seated. The minute ring wear and piston cylinder wear produces a slightly out of round cylinder which the rings seat or seal to. If the rings do not seat however, they will rotate on the piston, and never really seat or seal to the out of round cylinder bore. Rings may rotate slightly until they seat. If rings do not seat, the engine will use oil. And, my experience has been they will never seat. It is really important that ring tolerances, cylinder taper, and honing, be done correctly. Maximum spec. ring end gap does not seem to affect oil consumption in single cylinder rebuilds. By, if the rings do not seat, it is bad news.

If your rings don't rotate on the axial clearance then the ring groove loads up with carbon because its the burning gasses getting behind the ring that force it out for sealing.  The natural ring rotation (approximately 1 rpm) keeps the groove clean and maintains the axial clearance.  If the groove clogs, you get a stuck ring.  

 

I cant find any publication that says a non rotating, unpinned ring, in a round bore, is normal.

[Gregor 4,846]

29 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

I cant find any publication that says a non rotating, unpinned ring, in a round bore, is normal.

I am pretty ignorant when it comes to this real technical stuff, but I can tell you what I have seen on some 2 cycle Lawn Boy engines. I have not seen it often but some pistons are actually cast with a stop in the grooves. The rings cannot rotate. I assume this is to keep the ring gaps from passing over the intake and exhaust ports in the cylinder walls. Why some of them have this, and some don't, I have no idea, Maybe after some actual time in the real use world they discovered it wasn't working out so well.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Gregor

[RED-Z06 2,221]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

I am pretty ignorant when it comes to this real technical stuff, but I can tell you what I have seen on some 2 cycle Lawn Boy engines. I have not seen it often but some pistons are actually cast with a stop in the grooves. The rings cannot rotate. I assume this is to keep the ring gaps from passing over the intake and exhaust ports in the cylinder walls. Why some of them have this, and some don't, I have no idea, Maybe after some actual time in the real use world they discovered it wasn't working out so well.

Yes in general 2 strokes use a pinned ring or rings to keep them aligned with solid cylinder wall and keep them awat from the ports.  The exception is if the port has a "tonsil" or  a full bridge that extends down and provides support for the ring, these older engines were among the longest lived, such as the older homelites, power products engines, etc

[Howie 886]

I am pretty sure the rings do rotate in the cylinder. Was told that years ago at s B&S update school by the 

district service manager. Had not thought about it brfore that.

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

I was horrified at the cost of genuine Kohler parts last year when I did a complete rebuild of a K341. Your options are limited to eBay or small dealer selling nos for oem parts unless you want to sell your first born! Due to many things being NLA and excessively overpriced I went with aftermarket. Clark Racing, they use the aftermarket parts they sell so you know what your getting. Aftermarket parts in a lot of cases are a complete crap shoot. I’m happy with mine.