Auto 18 Hydro leak. Axles and lines

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

Great job!!

Thank you, but honestly. I couldn't have done it with out your help.  And throughout all this time, the tractor hasn't moved. Still hoisted and protected with a waterproof tarp.

Now I'm on to the mission of trying to remove the hubs and replace the axle seals!  Keep ya posted on that too! 😎 #FJB

[pfrederi 17,741]

49 minutes ago, wheelhorse-c-161-1979 said:

Thank you, but honestly. I couldn't have done it with out your help.  And throughout all this time, the tractor hasn't moved. Still hoisted and protected with a waterproof tarp.

Now I'm on to the mission of trying to remove the hubs and replace the axle seals!  Keep ya posted on that too! 😎 #FJB

If the axle seals leaked maybe the hubs will come off easily.  In any event do not pull on the hub flange very hard .  if they do not come easily you have to pull against the very back of the hub.   

 

 

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

17 hours ago, pfrederi said:

If the axle seals leaked maybe the hubs will come off easily.  In any event do not pull on the hub flange very hard .  if they do not come easily you have to pull against the very back of the hub.   

 

 

 

17 hours ago, pfrederi said:

If the axle seals leaked maybe the hubs will come off easily.  In any event do not pull on the hub flange very hard .  if they do not come easily you have to pull against the very back of the hub.   

 

 

That is one nice  lookin' hub puller!  What is that round plate called, that you are using as the primary force to pull from the rear??? 

Appears to me that it is a "custom designed" puller for the task at hand.  No chance I'd be finding one like that to rent at O'Reilly's or similar?

 

Rented a hub puller at O'Reilly's that uses three hub bolts  to attach itself to, and then a  dead weigh slam to pull the hub away from the axle.   Luckily it doesn't fit, so I'm returning it this morning.
 

Thanks for those pics 🙏🇺🇸

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

It is called a bearing separator/splitter.  Auto parts store should have them for loan...

 

 

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

! It is called a bearing separator/splitter.  Auto parts store should have them for loan...

 

 

Thanks! As the hub puller I rented from O'Reilly's which didn't fit cost $75 !  I think I might buy my own on AMZ.. What size / length are those  two long reinforced bolts, If I may ask?  

[pfrederi 17,741]

That project was several years ago.  They were I believe 5/8NF x 10".  You may note the square tubing in the puller appears curved... it wasn't when I started.  This was the worst hub I have ever had to pull

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

They were I believe 5/8NF x 10".  You may note the square tubing in the puller appears curved... it wasn't when I started.  This was the worst hub I have ever had to pull

Thatnks for that feedback. Returned, the useless hub puller to O'Reillys and proceed to order the exact "bearing splitter" on AMZ. Should have it in a few days. I'll pickup the same bolts you used. Question, those Red blocks behind the hub, appear to be painted

2"x4"s and not massive, metal blocks?

Next,  your square metal tubing is standard 1"#1" ? 
 

As for your recollection "the worst hub I ever had to pull", lol.....

 

I'm wagering that these hubs from the '73 Auto 18, will be in the running with yours...

 

Did you apply any heat, PBblaster, thermite 😳, or other heavy artillery to get those hubs to yield to your overwhelming power?
 

Just percolating in my mind, what I will encounter when I start tightening the bolts on a mirror setup you w/o raked with?
 

Thanks & God bless you for your mentoring. ✊🗽🇺🇸🇺🇸

 

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

Excellent strategy! 

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

19 hours ago, wheelhorse-c-161-1979 said:

Thanks! As the hub puller I rented from O'Reilly's which didn't fit cost $75 !  I think I might buy my own on AMZ.. What size / length are those  two long reinforced bolts, If I may ask?  

Exactly what I have used for many years, almost indestructible! I really like your "custom puller", nice torque from that bad boy!

Edited February 4, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[pfrederi 17,741]

15 hours ago, wheelhorse-c-161-1979 said:

Thatnks for that feedback. Returned, the useless hub puller to O'Reillys and proceed to order the exact "bearing splitter" on AMZ. Should have it in a few days. I'll pickup the same bolts you used. Question, those Red blocks behind the hub, appear to be painted

2"x4"s and not massive, metal blocks?

Next,  your square metal tubing is standard 1"#1" ? 
 

As for your recollection "the worst hub I ever had to pull", lol.....

 

I'm wagering that these hubs from the '73 Auto 18, will be in the running with yours...

 

Did you apply any heat, PBblaster, thermite 😳, or other heavy artillery to get those hubs to yield to your overwhelming power?
 

Just percolating in my mind, what I will encounter when I start tightening the bolts on a mirror setup you w/o raked with?
 

Thanks & God bless you for your mentoring. ✊🗽🇺🇸🇺🇸

 

 

 

I had tried PB Blaster. Kroil  no heat 

 

I think the tube was 1'x 1-1/2

 

The red plates were steel press plates.  3/4 thick 3"x12" backed up with 1/4 steel plate unpainted.

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

So had a managed to pull the left hub.

Made up a puller inspired from Prefederi. 
 

So pumped with confidence, I figured I repeat the technique in the right hub. 

 

The hardened bolts were bending, and it became evident that it was not coming off.

 

The thing that seemed concerning, is that there seemed to be some play on the axle. That is I could move it up or down by lifting the hub. Perhaps a 1/4” or 1/2” or so. 
could it be the play from the blown axle seal, or is that a deeper problem inside the transaxle?  ( yikes)

 

Meanwhile was thinking of applying heat to the hub/axle with map gas or oxyacetylene? 

 

Any insight appreciated as always 🙏
 

 

[daveoman1966 3,752]

Your comment:  

The hardened bolts were bending, and it became evident that it was not coming off.

For the stubborn hub:  While the center bolt of your removal tool is under tension, WHACK it on the end...thinking that the SHOCK may free the stubborn hub.  Draw tension again, and WHACK it again...repeat as needed.  

 

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

Hi Dave, Definitely will try that this morning! 
 

Any benefit/risk to heat up w map or oxyacetylene the hub?

Let ya know how it goes.🤞

 

I am worried bout the wiggle looseness in that axle when not under pressure.  I pray it’s not an internal damage thing.

🙏🗽🇺🇸

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

 I do agree on the Whacking Shock as Mentioned by (Davoman). That puller is strong, (Prefeder has some excellent custom tools )maybe increase your hardened grade 8 bolt diameter?

Edited February 14, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[pfrederi 17,741]

In an out movement of  up to 1/8" on the axles is OK  any up down front to back movement and you have a bearing issue. 

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

In an out movement of  up to 1/8" on the axles is OK  any up down front to back movement and you have a bearing issue. 

Gee as I wish to thank. ManicMechanic, Dave and certainly you Pfrederi, as I just came back in from successfully pulling of the second hub.  Was using grade 8 screws and then washers. Took a lot of whacking and re tightening bolt but I got her off✊.

"Never ever give up." 

 

So apparently there is a "bearing issue"?   --- > If I manage to install new seals, will this old girl still roll around on the farm a little while longer? 
Here is the video showing the play in the right axle.  I hope it displays ! 😅🇺🇸

https://rumble.com/vuxja1-1973-auto-18-right-axle-play.html

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by wheelhorse-c-161-1979

[pfrederi 17,741]

Sorry but your axle bearings are shot.  The outer needle bearing is likely spreading needles around inside the transaxle.  That can cause much more expensive damage. Absolutely do not drive it around any new seal would fail in short order and much more risk of  further internal damage...  A failed needle bearing can do this to the axle

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by pfrederi

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

6 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Sorry but your axle bearings are shot.  The outer needle bearing is likely spreading needles around inside the transaxle.  That can cause much more expensive damage. Absolutely do not drive it around any new seal would fail in short order and much more risk of  further internal damage...  A failed needle bearing can do this to the axle

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Sorry but your axle bearings are shot.  The outer needle bearing is likely spreading needles around inside the transaxle.  That can cause much more expensive damage. Absolutely do not drive it around any new seal would fail in short order and much more risk of  further internal damage...  A failed needle bearing can do this to the axle

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Sorry but your axle bearings are shot.  The outer needle bearing is likely spreading needles around inside the transaxle.  That can cause much more expensive damage. Absolutely do not drive it around any new seal would fail in short order and much more risk of  further internal damage...  A failed needle bearing can do this to the axle

 

 

Well, that kinda sucks!  
 

What is my next course of action, besides having a cold one 🍺 to help digest this reality! ? 
 

I've already ventured way past my "pay grade"  to get the hubs off, lol
 

As the expression goes "two is one and One is none." I've always believed in having a backup plan or two or three 😅
 

I do have a spare D200 in fine running condition, except it has no ARK 550 front end loader.  
I guess I could dismantle the entire loader gear and mount it on my back up tractor. 
 

Or if anyone knows what the next wise step to do would be, I'm ready to hear it. 
 

Got my beer in hand as I await to hear the options! 
 

Thank you in advance! 
 

Jacques

🙏✊🗽🇺🇸

 

3 hours ago, "Manic-Mechanic" said:

 I do agree on the Whacking Shock as Mentioned by (Davoman). That puller is strong, (Prefeder has some excellent custom tools )maybe increase your hardened grade 8 bolt diameter?

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

You might as well put the loader on the other d200. I am all most sure you will have to pull the loader subframe to remove and split the transaxle so that you can replace bearings and look for other damage.  if that  bearing self destructed and created metal chips shavings etc there is good chance the hydro unit itself will be on poor shape.

 

Sorry have another refreshing malted beverage....

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

10 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

You might as well put the loader on the other d200. I am all most sure you will have to pull the loader subframe to remove and split the transaxle so that you can replace bearings and look for other damage.  if that  bearing self destructed and created metal chips shavings etc there is good chance the hydro unit itself will be on poor shape.

 

Sorry have another refreshing malted beverage....

I’m starting my second 🍺!

A sad day indeed. Was hoping to keep the ‘73 going!

I believe your counsel, is the wise prudent one. 
 

After transferring the cage to the ‘78 D200 , perhaps I’ll find a way to get the ‘73 back to a lighter retirement schedule 🤓

 

Life is definitely an adventure. And the next chapter is putting the D200 I to service! ✊🇺🇸🇺🇸

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

You did say there was a good bit of up an down play? Hopefully you get into the transaxle and the little buggers didn't break loose inside yet!

Edited February 15, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

1 hour ago, "Manic-Mechanic" said:

Hopefully you get into the transaxle and the little buggers didn't break loose inside yet!

Well, the ‘Ol girl has been up in the hoist without the wheels for almost two months now. 
 

BEFORE I pulled the left hub and whacked the right one, I was running the engine and the hydro without the wheels and it seemed to run fine. Forward and reverse. 
 

If the transaxle is not totally wrecked yet, I’m honestly clueless how to proceed to fix the situation. 
 

As a first step I’m gonna transfer the front end loader to my spare D200, so I can hopefully have it work on my lil’ farm. 
 

That will free me up to address what the heck to do about the transaxle rebuild? 
 

Thanks MM for your help.  I’m in uncharted waters! But I used to be a pretty good swimmer, lol
🙏🇺🇸

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

You'll be happy that you rebuilt everything all at once, instead of as the components go bad. The 18 Auto can't get outta it's own way, but I love driving that Tractor!

Edited February 15, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[Handy Don 12,237]

14 minutes ago, wheelhorse-c-161-1979 said:

That will free me up to address what the heck to do about the transaxle rebuild? 

Depending on what you find when you get in there, a complete swap of the hydro pump/motor and transaxle from a donor tractor is a bit time consuming but not technically difficult.

 

As noted earlier, a lot rides on what's already in there and any repercussions from running it. I'll toss in one other suggestion for when you are opening things up: be sure to look at the inlet side of the hydro oil filter carefully to see if any stuff circulated from the charge pump out through the lift system and got picked up in that filter. 

[wheelhorse-c-161-1979 117]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I'll toss in one other suggestion for when you are opening things up: be sure to look at the inlet side of the hydro oil filter carefully to see if any stuff circulated from the charge pump out through the lift system and got picked up in that filter. 

Hi Handy Don! 
Yes thanks for that suggestion. That will be an easy test to see what damage that is. 
 

Thank you again to every one for your help and amazing knowledge of these great tractors. 

Good night to all 

🗽🙏🇺🇸