My snowblower lift

[Gregor 4,846]

3 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Just read through the instruction manual for your meter.  I found no reference to the hold function in the manual so it's anyone's guess.

The manual explains how to read AC as well as DC Current. No where in the manual does it mention the "HOLD" button. I tried using the hold button on the,(dare I say it? ) cigarette lighter for a longer current draw. It acted the same. No reading with the hold button depressed. ~ 6.7 amps without the hold button.

[Gregor 4,846]

The basic anatomy of a snowblower mount and lift system. Tap the PTO pedal for up, tap again for down. A 2000# winch, 50' of cable, and it travels about 2 1/2" inches. Overkill maybe 

[Gregor 4,846]

Does anyone know what happens to a winch like this when you exceed it's capacity? Does it simply stop?  Blow a fuse? Break?

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Gregor

[ebinmaine 67,317]

46 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Does anyone know what happens to a winch like this when you exceed it's capacity? Does it simply stop?  Blow a fuse? Break?

 

 

Safety mechanisms or lack thereof depend on the company, residential versus commercial, what country it was made, etc.

The only way to know is to get a hold of the maker. 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

The only way to know is to get a hold of the maker. 

Oh trust me, there are other ways, but I don't recommend them. 

[ebinmaine 67,317]

10 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Oh trust me, there are other ways, but I don't recommend them. 

Marginally legal but effective. 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

If you were an electrician, and I know some of you are, would you say each contact in this relay is rated at 40 amps?

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

58 minutes ago, Gregor said:

would you say each contact in this relay is rated at 40 amps?

 

That appears to be what the spec is saying, but in my opinion that's a VERY optimistic claim!

 

[Gregor 4,846]

One thing about wiring for a heavy (25) amp load, has always befuddled me. For something that typically draws 25 amps, you would want a fuse rated at 30 amps. At least. So you install an inline fuse holder for a 30 amp fuse. The wire on this fuse holder is only 12 ga, rated at 20 amp. I don't get that. I've always heard a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.   Oh well.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Gregor

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

I've always heard a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

 

That's still true Greg!

 

If it were a circuit that drew 25A CONTINUOUSLY I would not use a fuse holder with 12ga wire myself.

If it were an INTERMITTENT 25A draw, then 12ga would probably be just fine.

 

That 20A rating on 12 ga wire is for continuous current and this would produce a very low temperature rise suitable for wires buried in walls of a home for example.

 

One could draw 25A through 12ga wiring with only marginally higher temperature rise on the wire.

 

And again... it's also somewhat about VOLTAGE DROP.  Even for a 20 Amp circuit, if the wire run was particularly long, an electrician would likely upsize the wire to 10ga to minimize the voltage drop.

 

On our machines our longest runs would be what, maybe six feet at the most?  

 

 

Looking at the above chart, 12ga has 1.6 Ohms per 1000 feet.  If you had 1000 feet of 12ga and drew 20A through it you would have roughly 32 Volts of drop.

100 feet, 3.2 Volts.  10 feet, 0.32 Volts.

 

At 25 A through that same wire you would have 40 Volts, or 4 Volts, or 0.4 Volts respective to the lengths above, 1000, 100, 10 feet.

 

A 10 foot length of that wire would be dissipating roughly 10 Watts as HEAT at 25 Amps, and 6.4 Watts at 20 Amps.

 

You can see that for our purposes, and intermittent loads, it's generally OK to undersize wiring amperage somewhat since it's not a continuous duty and the wiring isn't buried in a wall or conduit where it would not cool off as readily.  And the short lengths that we use the voltage drop is pretty inconsequential.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[peter lena 8,588]

@Gregor  when using a cable lift , use a lubricant for chain and cable , every time it winds up it will spread the lubricant , LUBRIPLATE , CHAIN AND CABLE FLUID , made for that use.  also detail lube any related blower frame movement points , make it move with ease, pete

[Gregor 4,846]

As I mentioned earlier, I ordered several different options as far a winch solenoids. One of them was this.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. 2 posts for the winch, 2 posts for the battery. Apply voltage to the coil, 12VDC goes to winch. Remove voltage to coil, 12VDC goes to winch  with polarity reversed. In essence a heavy duty DPDT relay. Not rocket science. Right?  Well, it does not work that way.,,,,,,,,Apply voltage to coil, continuity between black to yellow, and continuity between blue to red. All is good. Remove voltage from coil, continuity between black, yellow and blue.  I don't get it, and never will. My 2 ice cube relays are working, they are staying. ! I wish they were a bit more heavy duty, but it is what it is. It may look like a bit of a cluster, but it works.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Gregor

[peter lena 8,588]

@Gregor  the fact that you built it and set it up , makes the difference , verifying each step , no tightly cranked wiring , another thing I do with a changeover is to verify and improve anything that works , you know its solid , look at you, thinking outside the book , how dare you , kidding , pete 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

5 hours ago, Gregor said:

don't get it,

 

I don't either, but wonder what happens if you reverse polarity to the coil?

 

 

[R Scheer 502]

The winch motor should see 3 conditions, +12v = raise, -12v = lower, 0 = don't move.

 

My guess is if you put 12v on the white wire you'd get a raise, 12v on black wire lower.  

 

However if relays are working I'd go with it.  Glad it's working for you.

[kpinnc 11,934]

This may have already been mentioned- but most winches have torque ratings that change with the amount of cable that is out, since the spool grows in circumference as cable is rolled back in. Given how short the payout is that you'll need- it might be beneficial to make the overall cable length as short as possibe. 

 

...just thinking out loud. No guarantee I'm correct, but wanted to mention it.

[Gregor 4,846]

6 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

since the spool grows in circumference as cable is rolled back in.

My total cable pay out is ~12" when the unit is down. When lifted, it retracts to ~9 1/2". It only changes 2 1/2". Due to the short distance, my spool size isn't really changing, but I appreciate your input. That info might come in handy for the next modification I have in mind.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

On 12/29/2021 at 10:20 AM, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I don't either, but wonder what happens if you reverse polarity to the coil?

 

 

 

@Gregor 

 

Greg, I'm curious about that solenoid.  Did you try reversing the polarity of the control signal?

 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

@Gregor 

 

Greg, I'm curious about that solenoid.  Did you try reversing the polarity of the control signal?

 

 

Nope, But I;m on it.   But I'm not hopeful.  I see a problem arising.

UMMM....I take that back. I'm not on it. I sent that solenoid back.

 

But thinking it through, even if reversing polarity to the coil would change the continuity (which I doubt, as the coil is simply an electro magnet, and doesn't care about polarity) but if it did make the continuity switch to what I wanted, there would be a problem. I would have to use a DPDT switch to change polarity to the coil. In any switch, there is that split second in the middle, where it's simply off. That would be a problem creating continuity between black, yellow and blue. Can't have that.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,846]

I have made a few modifications. This thing just keeps on evolving, maybe for the good maybe not I added a turnbuckle between the cable and the board. I can sort-a fine tune it that way. Made a cover for the reversing switch. @Handy Don mentioned earlier a redundant limit switch. If 1 is good, 2 has to be better. I added a second limit switch to the up travel. It is completely separate from the cable system. I don't have a second limit switch on the down travel. If the limit fails for some reason, it will pay out more cable, but that's not going to cause anything catastrophic I hope.

oooooo be right back  Have another idea.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

I mounted a red marker light on top of the board. It is wired directly to the winch. Any time the winch is running, the light is on. If I notice this light on for more than 1 second, I'll know there is a problem. The first one I put on was LED. Did you know they won't work on reversed polarity?  I do.............NOW !

I also added a main shut off switch, rather than just wired to ignition ACC. Probably should have done that from the start. I have to figure out a way to remove hood easier. You have to lift the hood to add fuel, and of course, that's not possible. But I have a plan. we have 2" - 3" of snow forecast over night. I may get my chance to try this thing out. Might work like a champ, might not.There may be many problems but I do anticipate one in particular. The pipe that supports the rear of the snowblowers, is 3/8" galvanized, simply screwed together. If thinks start twisting a bit on those threads ?????

I may have to weld the joints solid.

One of my biggest fears is, my wife messes up with her phone, and doesn't get a video of the maiden voyage. If I get a video, I will post it, good or bad.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

3 hours ago, Gregor said:

 

 the coil is simply an electro magnet, and doesn't care about polarity) ..... I would have to use a DPDT switch to change polarity to the coil. In any switch, there is that split second in the middle, where it's simply off. That would be a problem creating continuity between black, yellow and blue. Can't have that.

 

Wouldn't reversing the poles on the electromagnet cause it to change direction?

 

Yes, you would need a DPDT switch to reverse the control lines.  I'm not sure why a "center off" would be a problem, and why you "Can't have that." ?

 

[Gregor 4,846]

11 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Wouldn't reversing the poles on the electromagnet cause it to change direction?

An electro magnet is just a magnet. It's going to pull the contacts down, regardless. The coil (electromagnet) is a separate entity from the rest of the unit. (usually)

 

15 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I'm not sure why a "center off" would be a problem, and why you "Can't have that." ?

 

On 12/29/2021 at 3:52 AM, Gregor said:

Remove voltage from coil, continuity between black, yellow and blue.

I can't have continuity between 3 poles at ANY given time.

[Gregor 4,846]

Took Casper out for a spin, and fired up the snow blowers. It steers quite easily, and I can even turn now.

I'm as ready as I'll ever be.

[Gregor 4,846]

4" of semi wet snow. Perfect for testing a snowblower. Somewhere maybe, but not here. Nary a flake. They changed the forecast, and will snow later today, they say. That's ok, I got another plan.