My snowblower lift

[Gregor 4,846]

I'm thinking about chaining this 656 between my truck, and a tree. Let the winch pull for all it's worth, and see what happens.   But I'm only thinking about it.

[wallfish 16,986]

45 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Because I like gadgets and gizmos and it gives me something to do.

Like you trigger a switch of some sort and then it's going to stop on it's own by limit switch ? I don't know what a current limiter is

I was just trying to understand what you wanted accomplish

 

[Handy Don 12,170]

15 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I'm thinking about chaining this 656 between my truck, and a tree. Let the winch pull for all it's worth, and see what happens.   But I'm only thinking about it.

Poor truck or poor tree or poor 656.

 

A DC current limiter with the capacity to handle a winch may be an expensive item. I'm thinking the winch may be 30 amps (at 12v) at max load? Much more than the engine will deliver via a stator so you'll be into the battery for heavy lifts.

 

As for limit switches, would you feel better with two in series for each direction? Slightly stagger when they activate. Say the failure rate on them is an extremely high 2% of the time, the odds of a dual failure is .02 x .02 = .0004 (four one-hundredths of a percent). Limit switches are cheap. Protection is good.

[Gregor 4,846]

39 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Like you trigger a switch of some sort and then it's going to stop on it's own by limit switch ?

Exactly. Tap the PTO pedal, it goes down, stops at a preset point. Tap it again. it comes up, stops at a preset point. I have done it before, but with a MUCH smaller DC motor and less consequences in the event of a failed limit switch.

 

39 minutes ago, wallfish said:

I don't know what a current limiter is

Maybe current limiter is a bad choice. Maybe a circuit breaker would be better, if I could find one that acts fast enough. But I fear it's a fine line between disaster and stopping. A circuit breaker AND a spring, may be the answer. Maybe a Slo-Blo fuse.

 

39 minutes ago, wallfish said:

I was just trying to understand what you wanted accomplish

 

As soon as I figure that out myself, I will let you know.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,846]

12 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Poor truck or poor tree or poor 656.

I would suspect my home built "contraption" that the winch is mounted on to give first.

14 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

A DC current limiter with the capacity to handle a winch may be an expensive item. I'm thinking the winch may be 30 amps (at 12v) at max load?

~13 at no load. ~ 18 at lift load. At jammed load?  I haven't had the guts to try that yet.

 

19 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

As for limit switches, would you feel better with two in series for each direction?

I could possibly make it a redundant system. I'll have to on that.

[Handy Don 12,170]

Hmmm. Are you running the original 656 engine?  A Tecumseh HH60? Pretty sure they only deliver 3 amps. Each lift will be like starting the engine with only a little time for recovery between lifts. 

[Gregor 4,846]

26 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Hmmm. Are you running the original 656 engine?  A Tecumseh HH60? Pretty sure they only deliver 3 amps. Each lift will be like starting the engine with only a little time for recovery between lifts. 

It is actually an H70. It was on the tractor when I got it. (That's a whole 'nother story). Yes it is probably only 3 amps, but i am aware of that. This really isn't something I plan to use on a regular basis,it's more of a novelty than anything else. Just to see if i can do it. I think I can. I think I can.

 

That being said. DO NOT try to lift the front of your 656 off the ground with this winch, you will pull the cheap metric screws  between the base plate and the winch, right out !  2 M5 X 10 MM flat head screws holding the winch to the base plate. THAT is suppose to hold 2000# ? I'll have to fix that in the AM.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Gregor

[R Scheer 502]

I can see using a spring and current limiter for stopping the lift if it goes past the limit switch, but how are you stopping the lower if it goes past the limit switch?  You could have a real mess of winch cable to untangle.  

 

The current limiter could be made on the cheap, a current shunt (low resistance resistor), an instrumentation op amp, voltage comparator, potentiometer, and solid state relay should do the trick. It doesn't need to be accurate.

[Gregor 4,846]

   

[Gregor 4,846]

I am making progress on my snowblower lift mechanism, but for now, Casper is broked,

I wasted over 2 hours yesterday trying to work through an electrical conundrum on a small relay. I was trying to mock up the limit switches for the winch. I finally had to just walk away and do something else. I decided to clean up my  garage. I had tools, parts, pieces, wiring, junk and crap everywhere. Even the dirt was dirty. Sometimes I reach the point I have such a mess, I have to clean everything up, and start over. But I digress.

My electrical problem turned out to be just what I thought it would be. Stupidity ! I misinterpreted the schematic on a small ice cube relay. I was using the wrong contacts for common. That just won't work., and I have the blown fuses to prove it. After all that wasted time, I don't think I need the relay anyway.

The parts are painted and ready to go back together. The upright angles turned out to be a bolt on feature as I was not sure I was going to keep them or not. I did. There are a couple of extra holes here and there due to some R&D, but after I apply for my patent, and go into production, those can be eliminated.   It's all painted graphite. Just kind-a like that color, and it goes with white and black Casper.

 

My winch solenoid, relay, contactor,  whatever you want to call it, is on order. In fact I ordered several different options. I'll see which I think will work the best, but I won't have them for  a few days. As @Handy Donalluded to earlier, If I plan to use this thing much, I may have to make a bracket, and mount a battery pack on the slot hitch. That would give me some weight anyway.

I am at a stand still until I get my parts.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

22 hours ago, Gregor said:

My winch solenoid, relay, contactor,  whatever you want to call it, is on order. In fact I ordered several different options.

I am at a stand still until I get my parts.

 

One of the options I ordered came in yesterday. It was another solenoid exactly like I had. I figured I could run them in tandem. The solenoid was bad, right out of the box. Sooooo

[ebinmaine 67,317]

4 minutes ago, Gregor said:

One of the options I ordered came in yesterday. It was another solenoid exactly like I had. I figured I could run them in tandem. The solenoid was bad, right out of the box. Sooooo

 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

Electrical question.  Will two #12 stranded wires, carry the same amp load as one #6?

[ebinmaine 67,317]

12 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Electrical question.  Will two #12 stranded wires, carry the same amp load as one #6?

My gut instinct was no so I checked a few charts. 

Here's an example:

 

 

 

There are a LOT of variables. 

This chart shows even THREE 12s don't equal a single 6.  

 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

Can I assume from that chart that two 12 ga wires will carry 40 amps?  That would be more than enogh.

[ebinmaine 67,317]

11 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Can I assume from that chart that two 12 ga wires will carry 40 amps?  That would be more than enogh.

 

I believe that to be the case.

I'd rather not be the defining factor there. 

Someone with more experience should throw in a second opinion. 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

I have plenty of #6 and #8 wire, but until my new solenoid come in, I am utilizing 2 DPDT relays in place of the solenoids. Hard to get #8 wire on an ice cube relay.

[Gregor 4,846]

The system works perfectly. It takes less than 1 second for the blower to be raised or lowered, with just a tap om the PTO pedal.  I can't get an amp reading in that short time. I have a 20 amp fuse in it now. It's the smallest fuse I have of that particular type. I'll have to try 15, 10, and 5 amp tomorrow, and see where it blows.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

There are a LOT of variables. 

 

There are...

 

Those ampacity charts are typical for house wiring and in general are for 100% duty cycle and very little temperature rise.

 

For momentary starter or motor loads where the wire has a chance to cool somewhat between uses one could go higher in ampacity for a given gauge wire.

 

The issue then becomes Voltage drop.  For very short runs of cable the drop would be minimized, but still could be appreciable.

 

Always best to err on the higher gauge side for best results.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

13 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I can't get an amp reading in that short time

 

Are you using your digital?  If so, does it have a 'peak hold' function?

 

[Gregor 4,846]

 

38 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Are you using your digital?  If so, does it have a 'peak hold' function?

 

When I push the hold button, it reads nothing. In the short time the motor does run, I have seen it go as high as 18. ??

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

hold button

 

That may not be what I'm talking about then.

 

Peak hold will save the highest reading it sees.

 

What meter are you using?

 

[Gregor 4,846]

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

Looks like a peak hold !

 

So you set up for a measurement with the hold function activated and it doesn't measure anything?

 

It might be sampling too slowly...

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

Just read through the instruction manual for your meter.  I found no reference to the hold function in the manual so it's anyone's guess.