Jump to content
Tuneup

Balance Gear Surgery

Recommended Posts

Wheelhorse#1

I’ll be following this one.I removed the balance gears on a 301, like  a bad tooth it was loose and flopping around in there.

It definitely has more vibration at a certain rpms now.I’d be interested to see if that plate from Kirk engine works.

It’s reasonably priced too.

 

Edited by Wheelhorse#1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Jeff-C175
13 minutes ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

I’ll be following this one.I removed the balance gears on a 301, like  a bad tooth it was loose and flopping around in there.

It definitely has more vibration at a certain rpms now.I’d be interested to see if that plate from Kirk engine works.

It’s reasonably priced too.

 

 

You're aware that the crank needs to come out and get some machining?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Wheelhorse#1
1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

You're aware that the crank needs to come out and get some machining?

 
Jeff, No Sir Wasn’t  aware of that.

Machining where the plate is installed on the crank ? 
I was thinking this was just a simple installation of hardware on the crank.I should of known 😆

Edited by Wheelhorse#1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Jeff-C175
6 minutes ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

 
Jeff, No Sir Wasn’t  aware of that.

Machining where the plate is installed on the crank ? 
I was thinking this was just a simple installation of hardware on the crank.I should of known 😆

 

Yes, the side of the crank needs to be machined flat where the weight goes and two holes drilled and tapped to attach the weight to the crank.

 

The weight could also be welded to the crank.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Wheelhorse#1
22 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Yes, the side of the crank needs to be machined flat where the weight goes and two holes drilled and tapped to attach the weight to the crank.

 

The weight could also be welded to the crank.

 

 


Thanks for the explanation Jeff.Not too complicated I recon but Beyond my capabilities as I don’t have the equipment.

I guess a fair machinist could tackle it no problem at reasonable cost.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
jeepdan

Following this thread closely as well.

I'm currently tearing down a M12 Kohler from my 89 312-8 for an overhaul. 

I think just in time, as I found the counter balance gears  wobbly.

Does the M12 need a balance plate also if I toss the balance gears?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
pfrederi
5 minutes ago, jeepdan said:

Following this thread closely as well.

I'm currently tearing down a M12 Kohler from my 89 312-8 for an overhaul. 

I think just in time, as I found the counter balance gears  wobbly.

Does the M12 need a balance plate also if I toss the balance gears?

You do not need  balance plate...which requires more machine shop work , but you may feel more vibration

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
jeepdan

Thanks for the reply.

For curiosity, I looked up Kirk's instructions on the balance plate. I could do the machining myself at home, no problem there.

Just didn't know whether it was needed or not.

The instructions make no mention of the Magnum series. 

For longevity of my Kohler, I would be willing to do it. 

Edited by jeepdan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Jeff-C175
1 hour ago, jeepdan said:

I found the counter balance gears  wobbly.

 

HI Dan,  did you hear any rattly noises when the engine was running?

 

If so, can you describe the sound?

 

Have you measured the end play of the camshaft yet?

 

I got my gaskets today in the mailbox.  The oil pan gasket was broken!  arghhhhh!

 

Edited by Jeff-C175
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
jeepdan
1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

HI Dan,  did you hear any rattly noises when the engine was running?

 

If so, can you describe the sound?

 

Have you measured the end play of the camshaft yet?

 

I got my gaskets today in the mailbox.  The oil pan gasket was broken!  arghhhhh!

 

No, not that I remember.

 But it has been over five years since I have ran my horse. It has been in storage ever since I flipped it over while mowing. Beat it up pretty bad, I'm very lucky to not even get scratch out of that scary ordeal.

So, after collecting parts for a few years, I'm ready to start a complete restoration along with a few modifications.

I checked the camshaft endplay with a dial indicator while tearing down the engine. It was .005", so I'm good on that. 

  • Like 1
  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Snoopy11
18 hours ago, jeepdan said:

I'm very lucky to not even get scratch out of that scary ordeal.

Wait... what...? You didn't stay on the bucking stallion there cowboy Dan? :scratchead:

 

:lol:

 

Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Snoopy11
19 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I got my gaskets today in the mailbox.  The oil pan gasket was broken!  arghhhhh!

:angry-cussingblack: ... along with some... :bitch:

 

 

Don

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Jeff-C175
5 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

:angry-cussingblack: ... along with some... :bitch:

 

 

Don

 

I'm confident that Norman will make me whole again!  ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Snoopy11
11 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

make me whole again

Ironica... aye? :scratchead:

 

Don

Edited by Snoopy11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
jeepdan
11 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Wait... what...? You didn't stay on the bucking stallion there cowboy Dan? :scratchead:

 

:lol:

 

Don

I have had a few accidents on my Wheel Horse.

I won't hijack this thread anymore by going into detail. I will save that to post in a restoration thread that I'm going to start.

I will say one thing though, the criteria for the terrain that Wheel Horse specifies in the owners manual, does not compute for most yards in West Virginia.:confusion-seeingstars:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Snoopy11
8 minutes ago, jeepdan said:

the criteria for the terrain that Wheel Horse specifies in the owners manual

Mine is... eh... not only the terrain... steep places at the pond...etc... but that my tractor is heavily modified... so... I know what you mean. I have to be really REALLY careful...

 

I never use third gear unless I am on the driveway. :thumbs:

 

Don

Edited by Snoopy11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ebinmaine
9 minutes ago, jeepdan said:

terrain

Yepp. Side of a mountain here. 

Well understood. 

 

We choose our forest pathways carefully.  

 

 

  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
ebinmaine
2 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

never use third gear unless I am on the driveway

Our terrain is so filled with roots n rocks we do the same.... With stock machines. 

 

:auto-swerve:

  • Excellent 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Snoopy11
Just now, ebinmaine said:

Our terrain is so filled with roots n rocks we do the same.... With stock machines. 

I really have to back it down when I am going downhill. The good thing is, the engine is powerful enough to hold the tractor back when I am going downhill... so it feels really solid.

 

The biggest problem I have is the side-to-side tip... :huh:

 

I haven't ever felt unsafe... but I won't put my Horse in a bad position if I can help it!

 

Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Jeff-C175
54 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Ironica... aye? :scratchead:

 

Don

 

John 5:11 !

 

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
jeepdan
1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said:

 

 

The biggest problem I have is the side-to-side tip... :huh:

 

 

 

Don

One cheek on the uphill fender, and the other on the seat.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Snoopy11
20 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

John 5:11 !

 

 

I did not see that coming!!! :P

 

Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Tuneup

Hi all!

Reviving this thread now that I FINALLY got this thing bored and honed.

 

That phone number from NAPA for a local with a machine shop? Sweet woman answered and said, "Robert who?" Ex-wife? Well, that was a dead end. In this post-Covid Georgia, few shops remain. Either that or we're just a throwaway world. I had to drive out to Braselton for the .020 bore and hone of my K301.

 

Called Engine Services on BBS Way - booked for the year, sorry. "How about a bare block, old cast iron single?" He paused and said to drop it by. Good guys. Bonus that they're just 500 ft. past Road Atlanta - an old stomping ground (visitor at the AMA races). I miss that Suzuki and the weekend shenanigans. So, 2 trips and a total of 6 hours in the car with a wife that is understanding and insisted on keeping me company and I have a really beautifully bored short block back on the bench. It really is a thing of beauty. I've never had an engine bored and may just use it as a door stop and cast my eyes toward it now and again or . . . install that piston this weekend.

 

Highly recommended. Oh, he asked what the engine came from (1980 C-125). Told him the bore measured within spec at 40 years of age. He said it's not surprising - that iron is dang hard! $150 well spent.

 

Who's that lister that lives in Flowery Branch - you lucky sucker!

 

I'll finally get all these engine parts off of the garage floor and should have this beast high idling by the end of the month.

 

 

K301 Bore.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Excellent 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • BrianKoch
      By BrianKoch
      Gentlemen,
       
      I am in need of help. While doing yard work with my K301 powered ‘68 Charger 12 it suddenly came to a stop and won’t start again. 

      My troubleshooting so far: 
       
      Fuel:
      • stabil/87 and clean
      • good flow before and after pump
      • carb clean, recently rebuilt, float level correctly set 
       
      Compression:
      •good? - blows finger off spark plug hole
      •good turnover but doesn’t fire off
      •piston and cylinders move freely
      •valve lash set .008 intake .018 exhaust
      •breather assembly correct and recently serviced with new gaskets and filter
      •head gasket not broken, head bolts tight, some carbon on head
       
      Spark:
      •no spark
      •all electrical/ignition components were replaced 1 year ago except voltage regulator
      •no loose connections, no grounding connections
      •inspected and applied graphite to starter shaft
      •changed plug
      •12v to coil good
      •cleaned points, points wire has continuity
      •condenser ground good
      •swapped battery, points and wire, plug and wire, coil, and condenser from running K301 (‘69 Charger 12)
      •points push rod does push out when turning engine over by hand, but unable to get points timed using multimeter method and timing mark on flywheel
       
      What else should I check/do?

       
    • Tuneup
      By Tuneup
      Hi all,
      Summary: Solid mounts a year ago were very nice. Removed balance gears last December. Unacceptable. Installed eBay originals in good condition. I can ride it again at full throttle AND keep my fillings.
       
      Long story (I have the day off):
      A thread inspired me last December to look and see if my balance gears were doing well and the rear one was a wobbler. Removed them. She was burning too much oil - original rebuild was just a stone hone and power was not as it should be - it took months to get it bored .020. Hard to find in GA. Installed everything and started her up. Solid mounts USED to be great! That old off-idle vibration that shook the hood was gone thanks to those mounts. A little more vibration was OK. After the removal of the balance gears - NOT! The thing makes my butt numb and I can't mow at higher than about 2500 RPM. The hood vibrates just too much.
      Decided to shop Flea Bay for some used, but OK, mounts. Toro prices are . . . the usual Toro prices. Mine were shot and tossed in the bin. Easily installed, right?
       
      I thought in my ignorance that I could just remove a solid mount one at a time and pop-in the originals. Heck, the mount rubber has to be pressed in! Who knew? My old ones weren't like this at the restoration years ago.
       
      Delayed while I figured how to pull the engine on my own. I used to just throw it up on the bench but I've grown more cautious. No buds around in the AM for assistance. Tied some 10 gauge wire around a 2x3. Put one end on the table saw and lifting was easy. Still have to lift the weight but no bending and it was going on the floor. Dead lift at knee level. Pulled the 2x3 across the table to extend the engine to the side of the tractor and let her down slowly.
       

       
      Engine bay still pretty clean and the engine oil was due for its 1 hour drop after the rebuild anyway. Looked fine.
       

       
      How to get those mounts in? Tried a C clamp and a socket as a spacer - too clumsy. Greased them up nicely and got longer bolts - tightening them a bit at a time and nudging the mounts into the hole with a blunt object. Turned out not to be a bother!
       

       

       
      I've learned not to throw things away. It always seems that you need something the day after it's in the garbage truck. I still had the grounding lead and the large mount washers.
       
      The wife assisted in the re-installation. Kinda' freaked her out. Back in place, and I got to clean the lower engine area from that minor oil leak around the fuel pump. Attracted grass clippings like a magnet.
       

       

       
      A few bulb squeezes to start her up and, glorious! No more teeth chattering and I can take her up to 3600 if I like - sounds wonderful and she tore through the deep, deep crab grass. Don't discount those mounts. Sure, that off idle vibration is back and stronger than before. Nothing like a fresh bore for power. Something to spend time on tomorrow.
       
      Now, what to do with these?
       

       
       
    • Jeff-C175
    • PWL216
      By PWL216
      Hi. I have a C121 which starts right up but lacks power. A compression check indicated 30lbs of pressure. I took the head off hoping maybe it’s just a gasket, but I think the cylinder needs to be honed or bored out. Based on the attached pics, is this block still good and would honing fix it?

    • Jeff-C175
      By Jeff-C175
      I put together a replacement for the missing clutch handle today.  I like it so much I'm going to make one for my C-175 also!
       
      Now I need to figure out how come it's not staying DISengaged.  It EASILY jumps off the detent at the slightest touch.  It appears to be a new bracket / lever, judging from the paint on it, but I have not investigated further yet.  Wonder if anyone has run into this and solved it?
       

       
      What is the correct routing for the throttle cable?  This just CAN'T be correct!  It's right on the cooling fins of the engine, it's done melted the skin off the cable!  Maybe it's a replacement cable and simply too short?
      If someone could post a pic of the correct routing it would be much appreciated!
       

       
      While looking that over I noticed some oil 'weepage' at the front of the engine.  To me it appears to be concentrated right under the fuel pump.  I presume there's a gasket there that may need to be refreshed?
       

       

       
      The only other suspect is the valve cover but and that appears to be a little weepy too, but  more so the fuel pump. 
       

       
      What say you K301 gurus?
       
       
       
       
×
×
  • Create New...