Reverse speed increase on Sundstrand hydro?

[ebinmaine 67,496]

Is it possible to increase the speed of reverse ONLY?

 

I got to thinking this morning which can be exceedingly dangerous.

In my particular situation with my particular yard I spend the majority of time in forward motion. But not by much... Much of my yard is covered in reverse gear. 

 

One of the biggest reasons I wanted to try a hydro for plowing is the faster reverse motion.

I like it. A lot.

 

So I'm wondering.... Is there a way to increase the speed of reverse ONLY even if it affects the forward speed a little?

 

 

[953 nut 55,228]

If the reverse motion is very slow there could be a broken spring in the reverse acceleration valve. If reverse working OK be happy there isn't a problem.

The passages in the reverse acceleration valve body on a Sundstrand are smaller than the ones in forward allowing less fluid flow in reverse. I don't think you want to mess with them. 

[ebinmaine 67,496]

27 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

If the reverse motion is very slow there could be a broken spring in the reverse acceleration valve. If reverse working OK be happy there isn't a problem.

The passages in the reverse acceleration valve body on a Sundstrand are smaller than the ones in forward allowing less fluid flow in reverse. I don't think you want to mess with them. 

 

Oh yeah. Seems to work fine. Of course it's the first Hydro I've ever driven so I don't really know for sure but it's definitely faster than the 8-speed in reverse.

 

 

So don't mess with it. You're saying I should NOT get out the hammer and chisel?

😂

[Pullstart 62,871]

EB.  You’re reading the lines… not between ‘em.  He just told you HOW to make it faster!  Get you a 1/2” drill bit and get to tuning!  

[953 nut 55,228]

12 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

You're saying I should NOT get out the hammer and chisel?

                  But if feel so inclined please take lots of pictures!              

[rjg854 11,361]

It is my impression, that a hydro has a faster reverse speed than a gear-jammer.  I may be wrong about that, but since I've been using hydros, my time in the saddle is markedly less.  Whether that's just not having to shift constantly or improved speed is debatable. I also do quite a bit of backing because of my situation and the areas I have to pile and push snow.

[johnnymag3 2,520]

My Eaton in the 418 A is faster than the Sunstrand in the C 160......But not by much..They are still much faster, marginally than any of my 8 speeds. A lot has to do with the ease of moving a motion rod back and forth vs. stop ...clutch....shift....release.   REPEAT...

 

All in all the motion in reverse is without a doubt more rapid with the Hydro....either one, Eaton or Sunstrand.

 

just my .02 cents...      And my experience

[ebinmaine 67,496]

2 hours ago, rjg854 said:

It is my impression, that a hydro has a faster reverse speed than a gear-jammer.  I may be wrong about that, but since I've been using hydros, my time in the saddle is markedly less.  Whether that's just not having to shift constantly or improved speed is debatable. I also do quite a bit of backing because of my situation and the areas I have to pile and push snow.

 

2 hours ago, johnnymag3 said:

A lot has to do with the ease of moving a motion rod back and forth vs. stop ...clutch....shift....release.   REPEAT

 

 

Part of the reason I choose the work that I do is because I'm fairly decent at making machines do what they're supposed to do.

When I'm running a manual transmission while plowing I have gotten into the habit of pressing the clutch, dropping out of motion, and just as the tractor comes to a halt it goes into the office again almost by nature of the beast. At that point I either raise or lower the plow as needed and continue on my way.

That process in and of itself is probably not a lot different speed than just moving the motion control on a hydro but the thing is, these are not synchronized transmissions so I have to fully stop the tractor and maybe even rock it back and forth just a little. A LOT of the time that happens.

 

You add up all the dozens of times for every plowing event that I need to change direction of motion and it certainly adds up.

 

As to the actual speed of the tractor I can tell you with rested assurance that this one is faster in reverse by a fair margin than my 8-speed which has the same engine.

I Try to run the RPMs in a similar range.

 

Forward speed being faster in my particular situation is really not a lot of help because my yard is so rough most of the fall and then in spring I just can't do full speed.

 

I do like being able to go a little faster but that's not the big attraction for me. What I like about having a hydro lift is extreme ease in which I can this huge plow up and down.

 

Picture a standard 42" plow blade. Now add 10 or 11 additional inches overlapped on each end, the welds, some reinforcements, and this great big thick heavy cutting edge.

It's at LEAST double the weight.

 

Left and right foot both stay flat on the floorboards on a hydro and my left arm barely has to work at all.

 

The other day I walked around behind my snowblower for at least an hour and then I sat on that tractor going every direction I could imagine for at least another hour or more.

When I went inside I wasn't even remotely close to being as tired as usual after plowing.

[pfrederi 17,739]

2 hours ago, johnnymag3 said:

My Eaton in the 418 A is faster than the Sunstrand in the C 160......But not by much..They are still much faster, marginally than any of my 8 speeds. A lot has to do with the ease of moving a motion rod back and forth vs. stop ...clutch....shift....release.   REPEAT...

 

All in all the motion in reverse is without a doubt more rapid with the Hydro....either one, Eaton or Sunstrand.

 

just my .02 cents...      And my experience

 

 

If your eaton is faster forward than your sunstrand you sunny must be getting tired.  The eaton should be faster in reverse...

 

From WH Owners manuals  Charger Electro (and I assume sunstrand C series)  forward 7mph rev 3.5

Eaton 300/400 (excl 418C)  7 mph and 4.5 mph

 

GT14  7.5 Mph and 3.5

 

8 speed  400 series 5.5 and 2.6

               300 series 5.3 and 2.5

 

856 3 speed  3.0 and 2.5

[pfrederi 17,739]

6 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Is it possible to increase the speed of reverse ONLY?

 

I got to thinking this morning which can be exceedingly dangerous.

In my particular situation with my particular yard I spend the majority of time in forward motion. But not by much... Much of my yard is covered in reverse gear. 

 

One of the biggest reasons I wanted to try a hydro for plowing is the faster reverse motion.

I like it. A lot.

 

So I'm wondering.... Is there a way to increase the speed of reverse ONLY even if it affects the forward speed a little?

 

 

 

 

Get an Eaton hydro....

[ebinmaine 67,496]

6 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

Get an Eaton hydro....

Interesting you'd say that. 

 

I have one here.  

 

Can that be "retrofit" or is it a PITA?

 

[pfrederi 17,739]

PITA

[953 nut 55,228]

32 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Can that be "retrofit" or is it a PITA?

@19richie66 did this on a GT-14. only difference is you wouldn't need to change the axles.

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Last motion control that I had apart I noticed that the lever on the trans that is engaged by the plastic cam thingy actually moves a lot farther in reverse than the cam thingy allows it to.

 

In fact, it looked like forward is somewhat limited in the same way, but not much.

 

I thought about jack standing the rear end to see if manually moving the lever without the cam thingy installed would speed the same in reverse but didn't try it.

 

I bet someone could 3D print a thingy with a shape that lets the lever travel further.

[19richie66 17,508]

If you use an eaton, it would be to your advantage to have a donor machine with all the linkage. It has a brake which also pushes the motion control back to neutral. A nice thing to have.  An eaton needs a little more room up top as the pump body is pretty good size. Up for a challenge, do it. 

[ebinmaine 67,496]

6 hours ago, 19richie66 said:

If you use an eaton, it would be to your advantage to have a donor machine with all the linkage. It has a brake which also pushes the motion control back to neutral. A nice thing to have.  An eaton needs a little more room up top as the pump body is pretty good size. Up for a challenge, do it. 

 

Won't be this year but I wouldn't put it past me. 😀

 

I have a 417A here that'll either be a runner for sale or a parts rig in a few months.  

 

 

[pfrederi 17,739]

If you want more speed in reverse and you have a piston to piston on your C160.  Take the cover off the hydro motor and rotate it 180 degrees.  Voila 7mph reverse 3.5  forward.  You will have to get used to the motion control working backwards.

Edited December 22, 2021 by pfrederi

[johnnymag3 2,520]

20 hours ago, pfrederi said:

If your eaton is faster forward than your sunstrand you sunny must be getting tired.  The eaton should be faster in reverse...

Only in reverse is there a difference. The forward is the same

 

Provided I use the same height tire...if not the speed changes. Taller tire covers more ground than a smaller diameter tire.

Edited December 22, 2021 by johnnymag3

[ebinmaine 67,496]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

If you want more speed in reverse and you have a piston to piston on your C160.  Take the cover off the hydro motor and rotate it 180 degrees.  Voila 7mph reverse 3.5  forward.  You will have to get used to the motion control working backwards.

 

You know. That might make more practical sense than you folks realize.

Three years now I've been using different manual transmission tractors to plow. My forward motion is almost always in second gear around 2,800 to 3,300 RPM. That should put me just over 3 MPH with the tires I'm using. 

 

Having a motion control that is reversed isn't as much of a deal breaker for me as it would be for some. I run several different kinds of machinery for work already so it's just a matter of training myself to the point of muscle reflex with each new setup.

 

To correct the reversal using a foot control one could put a lever forming a belt crank of sorts in between the pedal and the hand control which would reverse the direction.

Hhhmmmmm. 

 

 

 

[Lee1977 6,659]

On 12/21/2021 at 9:29 AM, johnnymag3 said:

My Eaton in the 418 A is faster than the Sunstrand in the C 160......But not by much..They are still much faster, marginally than any of my 8 speeds. A lot has to do with the ease of moving a motion rod back and forth vs. stop ...clutch....shift....release.   REPEAT...

 

All in all the motion in reverse is without a doubt more rapid with the Hydro....either one, Eaton or Sunstrand.

 

just my .02 cents...      And my experience

An Eaton with a worn cam and cam plate can be real fast in reverse, and almost imposable to get back to neutral. Can get real exciting right next to the highway or in a tight spot.

I installed a new cam and cam plate. Those part were worn out when I bought it. It was faster in reverse then forward. I had to used the brake several times to get it back in neutral.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Lee1977