Gun verses Rattle Can

[Gregor 4,847]

I have not done very much gun painting, so maybe I am not qualified to make this comparison, but I can tell some things I have learned, and my opinion on a few things.

 

Cost. The spray paint I was using, paint prime, clear coat, averages out to ~ $5.25 a can. I have used anywhere from 8 - 15 cans on a single tractor. Average it to 11 cans

          of paint, it comes out to $57.75 for Rattle can paint

           I don't have the numbers in front of me for the single stage blue paint I used on the mower, but I do have primer cost. Primer, reducer, hardener, $116. I only      

          actually used half of that, so, $58 Thats just for the primer. The single stage paint, I'm sure was higher.

          Obviously gun paint is more than rattle cans. Plus you have added the costs of filters, mixing cups, and lacquer thinner for cleaning the gun. All of these little things 

          add up to less than $10 I think, but it still costs.

 

Ease One of the things about rattle can painting is, you push the button, the paint comes out. Pretty simple, but you have no control how that paint comes out. You have

          no control over the volume of paint, the pressure, or the pattern. It is what it is. With a gun, you have pretty much complete control. Some small area are hard to get

          paint into. You can reduce air, volume, and adjust your pattern to a pin point if thats what you want. You can also adjust to a vertical fan, horizontal fan, lots of paint,

          or very little. I like that about gun painting.

 

Clean up  When you are done painting with a can, you either toss it away, or put it on a shelf somewhere if there is enough left to save. In a a year, maybe 2, if you can

                 still find that can, you look at it and wonder, "How old is this stuff?" With a gun, you HAVE to clean it, and clean it WELL ! I use Lacquer thinner. after your

                 satisfied you have your gun clean, what to do with this dirty Lacquer thinner. All I can say is, Let your conscience be your guide. It HAS to go somewhere.

                 But as with rattle cans, you will have gun paint left over also. Not only paint, but reducer, and hardener as well. When I bought the primer for this last

                 project, I knew I had at least 2 partial cans of reducer at home. The lady at the paint store explained, if you are going to use brand XYZ paint, you should use

                 brand XYZ reducer and hardener. Is it really necessary? I don't know, but sounded plausible to me. I bought more reducer, and hardener. I have no idea of it's  

                 shelf life, but I won't use rattle can primer under gun paint again, so maybe I will use it up. As far as the Baby Blue paint, I don't mind experimenting, but I just don't

                 think I could bring myself to paint a Wheel Horse, Baby Blue. Maybe I will find a Panzer, they were Baby Blue, sort-a, kind-a. I think.

 

Finish. I won't be using single stage paint again I don't think. While I believe the finished look is better than rattle can, it does not compare to base coat with clear coat

            on top. Try as you might, you won't get as good of luster, shine, or durability with a rattle can that you can achieve with a gun. I have some pretty good rattle can

             finishes on some of my tractors. At least I think so. If you have a small piece, and you can lay it almost flat, and maintain a perfect "wet look" throughout the piece,

             and then do the same with 2 - 3 coats of clear, it will come out very nice. Especially with Lacquer. Thats much harder to do with a fender pan or hood, hanging

             from a wire in your garage. For me, it's easier to do with a gun. Your mileage may vary.

 

These are my opinions only. Take them for what they are worth. I will never be the Painter @Achto, and many others on here are, but I learn a bit more with every try.

As with everything else there are a lot of helpful Youtube videos out there. And also as with everything else, there are a lot of videos of guys trying to impress you with how much they know, and not really telling you anything.

 

Dollar wise to get set up for gun painting you will need a gun. I think mine was $40 at HF. Not their cheapest, but far from the most expensive. A regulator/moisture trap. I have a regulator on my compressor, and another on my gun, but when you buy a moisture trap at HF, they have a regulator. About $50. Respirator about $25. I don't care how much rattle can painting you have done without a respirator, don't try it with gun paint. It'll kill ya ! Or at the very least, make you wish you were dead. I definitely need to improve on my ventilation system.I'm not quite sure just how to do that yet, but just about anything would be an improvement. I will also be buying one of those white, cover-alls, with some kind of cap for my head. My hair is going to be this color for a few days I think.If and when I do paint another tractor it will be with primer, base, and clear coat.

I believe it provides the best finish. Maybe I could clear coat this single stage paint, I don't know. But I'm not going to.

 

One more tip. After applying each coat, go outside, eat a banana. You may not need, or even like that banana, but if you had to, you would pay dearly for that clean air.

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 68,889]

A good write up. Thank you. 

 

The Paint Department here, aka Trina, and I have thus far only built worker tractors or equipment that we don't mind having a second rate paint job on. 

We've discussed getting her set up with an inexpensive paint gun. 

It's likely in the future but not a priority... Yet. 

 

A big reason is that here we have no space to paint inside.  

 

We've carefully weighed the compromise of paint quality and durability of a proper gun to the convenience of a single use spray can. 

 

At this point in time we have at least 3 full restoration future tractor projects and several implement projects. 

 

It's certainly possible we will set up a gun for the sheet metal of those at the least. 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 26,157]

Rattle can outside for me… 

 

No muss no fuss and ok for what I’m doing…

 

[Achto 27,920]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

if you are going to use brand XYZ paint, you should use

                 brand XYZ reducer and hardener. Is it really necessary? I don't know, but sounded plausible to me

 

I follow this rule as well. Not all acrylic, urethane, etc are created using the same chemicals from one manufacturer to the next.

 

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

Maybe I could clear coat this single stage paint, I don't know.

 

Single stage enamels are not all the same. An acrylic enamel will have a much better shine and durability than a synthetic or strait enamel. 

 

If you wish to clear coat over a single stage paint.

A - Let the paint cure at least a week.

B - Wet sand the paint with 1200grit sand paper, take care not to sand through the paint any where. 

C - Wipe clean with prepsol cleaner/solvent made to final wash paint or primer. Do not use acetone or any type of reducer.

D - Wipe clean with a tack cloth

E - Apply your clear.

 

Dupli-Color makes an inexpensive prepsol for final wash before painting. Available at most auto parts stores. Wet a rag with it and wipe it on then wipe it off with a dry rag.

https://www.amazon.com/VHT-CM541-Grease-Wax-Remover/dp/B00QSP0PDI/ref=asc_df_B00QSP0PDI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241952584952&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1912435607415140936&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018822&hvtargid=pla-568989220510&psc=1

 

Very good write up. I'm glad that you stressed wearing a respirator, we should all do this even when using a spray can. Keep up the good work.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Achto

[Gregor 4,847]

13 minutes ago, Achto said:

If you wish to clear coat over a single stage paint.

A - Let the paint cure at least a week.

B - Wet sand the paint with 1200grit sand paper, take care not to sand through the paint any where. 

C - Wipe clean with prepsol cleaner/solvent made to final wash paint or primer. Do not use acetone or any type of reducer.

D - Wipe clean with a tack cloth

E - Apply your clear.

There are over 40 painted pieces to this little mower. I guess that's why my blasting bill was $375, and I didn't take them all.  I'm thinkin' it's gonna be good enough the way it is.

[Maxwell-8 4,359]

38 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I guess that's why my blasting bill was $375

Then a sandblast cabinet would have paid itself back. I payed 310€ for mine, installed it yesterday, can't wait to test it out. 

Waiting on outside temperatures to climb to the 50°. 

 

3 hours ago, Gregor said:

averages out to ~ $5.25 a can.

Here in Belgium it's around 20€/22.53$ a pop,  a spraygun paintjob is cheaper if you need to do a complete Wheel Horse. 

Planning of doing my first restauration starting in February on my C141D 

[Gregor 4,847]

9 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Then a sandblast cabinet would have paid itself back.

I am slowly experimenting with blasting. I bought a small portable unit, no cabinet, to try out. Yesterday I had my wife pick up some coarser media in the "big city". Later today I am going to try that out on some wheels. Predicted high today, 70F  Dec 15 in northern IL. I can live with that.

[clueless 3,012]

Rattle can vs Spray gun, I think it comes down to what your going far. An out the factory restoration paint job or nice looking paint job that will protect a worker for another 25 years. If your going to use the tractor then shake, rattle and spray .

[Gregor 4,847]

1 hour ago, clueless said:

Rattle can vs Spray gun, I think it comes down to what your going far. An out the factory restoration paint job or nice looking paint job that will protect a worker for another 25 years. If your going to use the tractor then shake, rattle and spray .

No one in their right mind would go to all this trouble for a tractor that was going to be used for mowing, plowing, hauling, snow removal, and general property up keep. I may start that next week.

 

One tip I forgot to mention above. I would not bring it up, but I think it's important. This is probably obvious to the seasoned painters, but not to me. It took me a while to catch on. If you are going to set up a spray booth, or simply paint in an enclosed place, with some type of an exhaust fan. Start at the front, and work your way towards the fans. All the mist (or a lot of it) will be drawn to the front, and cover your newly painted pieces otherwise. It will look like over spray. This seems to be worse when using a gun with a wide fan pattern.

[oliver2-44 9,929]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

No one in their right mind would go to all this trouble for a tractor that was going to be used for mowing, plowing, hauling, snow removal, and general property up keep. 

It all becomes ones preference.  I've restored the 312-8 for my sons worker to the best quality mechanical and metal refinish I'm capable of.  I blasted it to a near white metal, then used a spray gun with rustoleum, hardener, clearcoat , wet sanded and polished.  He has taken care of it and five years later it still looks excellent.  I have 2 more sons that I will be restoring workers for. They will get the best restoration within my capabilities I can do.  It's my hopes their workers out live me and maybe even get passed to my grandchildren. 

 

Then again, before I retired I did what I could to do the best maintenance within our limitations that we could, ie sometime taking the hard road.  They definitely said I wasn't in my Right Mind 

Edited December 15, 2021 by oliver2-44

[ebinmaine 68,889]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

One tip I forgot to mention above. I would not bring it up, but I think it's important. This is probably obvious to the seasoned painters, but not to me. It took me a while to catch on. If you are going to set up a spray booth, or simply paint in an enclosed place, with some type of an exhaust fan. Start at the front, and work your way towards the fans. All the mist (or a lot of it) will be drawn to the front, and cover your newly painted pieces otherwise. It will look like over spray. This seems to be worse when using a gun with a wide fan pattern.

 

That sort of a syndrome might lead me to believe that my airflow was not adequate.

 

The couple of paint booths that I've been in many moons ago had multiple entrances and exits, both filtered.

 

 

[Gregor 4,847]

One of the pitfalls of painting with a gun, and custom mixed paint.

A bare spot inexperienced painters leave.

I guess that's what these are for.

[davem1111 2,055]

This seemed like a good painting-related thread to drag out, instead of starting a new one.

 

I've been repainting a few side panels with rattle can Rust-Oleum Regal Red, and I like the look and color so far.  I tried some Rural King "RK Tractor Red" but it was a bit more on the orange-y side, so I painted over that.  

 

I am curious about a good rattle can clear coat, because I do think that takes it up another notch and would be worth the money and effort.

 

My main question though is, what steps do you take to get the really greasy cruddy parts clean enough to paint?  I've got my trans off the 416-8 right now, and I'm still scraping crap off with a putty knife after spraying it with Gunk several times. I've tried mineral spirits on some of the less cruddy areas, applied with a small wire brush and/or towel, and that... helps.  I bought some Acetone for a final pass before painting (yeah I know, carcinogenic. Wearing nitrile gloves... used to work in a factory where we washed our hands in buckets of the stuff...  )  Just wondering if there's anything else worth trying that's not too expensive.  Maybe I'll see if they have a low cost pressure washer at HF, but I think it would take steam to really get the grease off, no?

 

Thanks!

[kpinnc 12,813]

On 12/15/2021 at 10:49 AM, Gregor said:

No one in their right mind would go to all this trouble for a tractor that was going to be used for mowing, plowing, hauling, snow removal, and general property up keep. I may start that next week.

 

I dunno. Maybe I'm out of my mind. ALL of my machines work. Restored or not, they all do something. I try very hard to keep them clean, but I use them for what they were intended.

[oliver2-44 9,929]

2 hours ago, davem1111 said:

This seemed like a good painting-related thread to drag out, instead of starting a new one.

 

I've been repainting a few side panels with rattle can Rust-Oleum Regal Red, and I like the look and color so far.  I tried some Rural King "RK Tractor Red" but it was a bit more on the orange-y side, so I painted over that.  

 

I am curious about a good rattle can clear coat, because I do think that takes it up another notch and would be worth the money and effort.

 

My main question though is, what steps do you take to get the really greasy cruddy parts clean enough to paint?  I've got my trans off the 416-8 right now, and I'm still scraping crap off with a putty knife after spraying it with Gunk several times. I've tried mineral spirits on some of the less cruddy areas, applied with a small wire brush and/or towel, and that... helps.  I bought some Acetone for a final pass before painting (yeah I know, carcinogenic. Wearing nitrile gloves... used to work in a factory where we washed our hands in buckets of the stuff...  )  Just wondering if there's anything else worth trying that's not too expensive.  Maybe I'll see if they have a low cost pressure washer at HF, but I think it would take steam to really get the grease off, no?

 

Thanks!

With a  wire brush on a hand grinder you can buff it clean or add some pressure and strip most of the paint off except a few hard to get to areas. A wire cup brush in a drill will help buff it clean but not strip it. Simple green or I like Dawn dishwashing detergent and a drill brush to degrease. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by oliver2-44

[ebinmaine 68,889]

7 hours ago, davem1111 said:

what steps do you take to get the really greasy cruddy parts clean enough to paint?

'Round these pahts we use the mechanical means FIRST. 

 

Disassemble whatever it is to be painted. 

Use the scrapers, putty knife, screwdrivers of varying sizes. 

We have at least half a dozen wire brushes. Hand, drill, 4" body grinder. 

A hand wire brush with a little brake clean is excellent for removing greasy sludge muck. 

It is time consuming and there's no way around that. 

 

Next steps can be reversed/varied as needed. 

 

You'd REALLY like the pressure washer. 

We have one that uses hot or cold water. 

 

I buy brake clean in case quantity. (MUCH cheaper) We use it for hornet killer and sometimes even clean things with it. 😀

 

Final prep is done with acetone and a white rag/cloth.