C160 passed out once , then died.

[Bob Nakon 55]

Hi all,

I was hauling the trash cart up to the road, needed the lights. About halfway up the lights blinked off. On the way back they came on and then went off and it began running very rough. Barely able to get it into the barn and it died. Will not turn over and no juice. The starter has been acting up a bit. Any ideas are welcome.  

Thanks, Bob

[ebinmaine 70,802]

Lights flickering and then the engine dying is not likely related to the starter acting up, directly.

 

All three could, however, be related to something as simple as a bad ground or broken cable.

 

It's important to remember that these are DC systems. Dc. Direct current. No ground, no current. No circuit.

 

Now would be the time to remove each and every wire one end at a time and clean the connections, then reinstall.

 

Notwithstanding bad grounds or dirty connections there are two things that come to mind. The first thing is that maybe your ammeter let go. You can test that by taking the wire off of one side of the ammeter and simply putting it on the other terminal. That connects that wire directly and eliminates the ammeter from the circuit.

 

The other thing was maybe that the voltage regulator or the ground for it is questionable.

 

 

[RED-Z06 2,479]

Easiest thing...test the battery.

If its good...check the terminals

If good, test the switch...12v in, 12v out and a ground wire.

If that's good..check the ground cable to the battery/frame

[squonk 42,584]

Ammeter or connections. Happens all the time.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

19 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Easiest thing...test the battery.

 

To properly 'test the battery' requires tools that many do not own.  A Hygrometer to test the specific gravity, and a load tester.  A simple voltage test is only the first part of the 'triad'.

 

I might add that inspecting all of the cabling and connections is at the top of the list, not at the bottom.

 

A wise man once said " 99% of troubleshooting is VISUAL! "

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[squonk 42,584]

Doubt it's the battery. Sounds like it happened sort of "all at once" 

[peter lena 9,093]

@Bob Nakon agree with others on the possibilities , always take advantage of a likely to find failure , you had me when your lights blinked off , shorted wiring ,corroded connections @ebinmaine  is on track , with that wire by wire check , check out your fuses for corrosion and tight bend  wire chafing , might luck out and find a powdery cracked wire connection ,  may the force be with you , pete 

[RED-Z06 2,479]

7 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

To properly 'test the battery' requires tools that many do not own.  A Hygrometer to test the specific gravity, and a load tester.  A simple voltage test is only the first part of the 'triad'.

 

I might add that inspecting all of the cabling and connections is at the top of the list, not at the bottom.

 

A wise man once said " 99% of troubleshooting is VISUAL! "

 

AutoZone still tests for free.  Also a simple volt meter can show static voltage, if its 3v...thats a problem, if its 12.3 and you hit the key and it drops to 3v...thats a problem.  I run a shop going on 18 years, never have had a load tester but a meter is invaluable 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

53 minutes ago, Bob Nakon said:

the lights blinked off. On the way back they came on and then went off

 

13 minutes ago, squonk said:

Doubt it's the battery. Sounds like it happened sort of "all at once" 

 

Yup, the battery wouldn't 'go bad', get better, and go bad again.  That would immediately point me toward a bad / corroded connection.

 

It is very likely low on charge though if that connection has been corroding away slowly for some period of time.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[RED-Z06 2,479]

2 minutes ago, squonk said:

Doubt it's the battery. Sounds like it happened sort of "all at once" 

Batteries do just fail.  Had a 98 Ram that i started, drove a mile, realized i forgot my wallet, came back...got back in, turn key...nada, nothing, no lights not a sound. Meter showed 1.1v.  Cell shorted internally between starting it and shutting it off.  If his charging system couldn't maintain 10v to fire the coil that would turn it right off.

 

My C100, if the ammeter wires are not on...nothing gets power.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

AutoZone still tests for free.  Also a simple volt meter can show static voltage, if its 3v...thats a problem, if its 12.3 and you hit the key and it drops to 3v...thats a problem.  I run a shop going on 18 years, never have had a load tester but a meter is invaluable 

 

I don't disagree that a simple voltage test will tell you volumes, but it's still only part of a battery test, no matter how many years you have run a shop.  

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

8 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Cell shorted internally

 

More likely a cell OPENED and not shorted.

Broken connection internally.

I've had the same thing happen.

 

If a cell SHORTS, you would typically see a voltage that was reduced by approximately roughly 2 volts or so (for ONE shorted cell).  A shorted cell would not drop the voltage to near zero.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

hit the key and it drops to 3v.

 

And that right there is a LOAD TEST!

 

[RED-Z06 2,479]

Just now, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I don't disagree that a simple voltage test will tell you volumes, but it's still only part of a battery test, no matter how many years you have run a shop.  

And you dont need a load tester, to load test a battery.  It helps..but its not necessary, alot depends on what you are looking for, in general if a battery has a surface charge...a few amps will send it south. In OPs case nothing is working at all...so if he shows say 11v and hits the key and it drops, he knows the battery is where he needs to start looking.  Battery provides all the power..verify it first, same as checking gas on a crank/no-start, they wont run without it.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

in general if a battery has a surface charge...a few amps will send it south

 

And that right there is a load test.

 

[RED-Z06 2,479]

5 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

More likely a cell OPENED and not shorted.

Broken connection internally.

I've had the same thing happen.

Thinking more along the lines of a soft short, sulfite buildup leading to a rapid internal discharge.

[squonk 42,584]

30 years in the Auto business. Saw a battery fail suddenly........... once. 

[squonk 42,584]

I need all my fingers and toes to count how many times I've seen the ammeter or ammeter connections do this on a C series tractor.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

9 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Battery provides all the power..verify it first

 

But if one were playing the ODDS, they would check all of the cabling first, because the ODDS would be with them that they would find the problem there, rather than a battery that suddenly took a dump.

Especially since the OP said they 'went out, came back, went out again'.  That's not a symptom of a bad battery but rather a crappy cruddy connection condition.

[RED-Z06 2,479]

7 minutes ago, squonk said:

30 years in the Auto business. Saw a battery fail suddenly........... once. 

It will throw you off when it happens, you assume its good because it was just good...so you start checking switches, wires..cant find power, end up at the battery..no power there either🤣

[squonk 42,584]

With a quick battery fail the OP should have probably smelled rotten eggs.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

With a quick battery fail the OP should have probably smelled rotten eggs.

 

And would have had to have been aware of why he was smelling rotten eggs.  I smelled rotten eggs at Home Depot the other day.  I knew the source!    I was glad I was alone in the aisle!

[Snoopy11 5,717]

14 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

And would have had to have been aware of why he was smelling rotten eggs.  I smelled rotten eggs at Home Depot the other day.  I knew the source!    I was glad I was alone in the aisle!

I've been in the aisle... smelled it... but I wasn't the cause... 

 

 

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said:

I've been in the aisle... smelled it... but I wasn't the cause... 

 

 

 

Don

 

But I've never been to Indiana!

 

I did spend a week in Iowa one day!

[Snoopy11 5,717]

11 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

But I've never been to Indiana!

 

I did spend a week in Iowa one day!

The smell of rotten eggs CAN be pretty strong... 

 

 

Don