Sunstrand neutral problem

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

Having a problem with  hydro to where it won’t go into neutral fully.

I have tried to adjust it but that only seems to apply to the tightness of the shift leaver.

If I play with it long enough it will stay for a short period of time but then gradually will slowly move forward or reverse.

This is on a 73 12 Auto I’ve been working on.
Also the (parking break)doesn’t seem to do much at all.Something missing here ?

 Thanks 

 

 

[Achto 27,571]

15 minutes ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

Something missing here ?

 

I do not have a Sundstrand that is that new But all the ones that I do have would have a lever sticking out of the transmission that would ride on the lower round knob on the parking brake shaft.

 

Circled.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Achto

[Achto 27,571]

One other thing that I noticed. There is no spring on you belt engage/disengage lever. What is putting tension on the belt?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Achto

[squonk 41,113]

What model # is the tractor. This is the period when they switched from the Sunstrand Hydrogear to the the Piston /Piston type. Maybe a different linkage? 

[pfrederi 17,739]

Take a picture of the other side of the unit.  Squonk is onto something.  Later piston to piston sunstrands had a real brake band on the hydro motor no internal parking pawl.  Creeping  may mean you need to do the neutral adjustment shown in the owners manual

[pfrederi 17,739]

The plug in the hole that the brake pawl should be looks rather professional.  Quick research indicates they did not add the external brake until the 1978 models.  i wonder if this is a replacement tranny.  Really need to see the other side...

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

Ok all ,thanks a lot,was abel to adjust neutral.At first I couldn’t  see the screw inside the nylon Cam, it had lithium grease inside it.

I had a copy of the repair manual that Pfrederi posted but all blurry.Thank you !

 

The break makes no sense.When I move the Handel it does nothing but make the belt slightly tighter and then returns to position.There is no spring to keep tension.The idler pulley is at its highest point in the picture.

 

       

[pfrederi 17,739]

Well something ain't right here...Hydro gear (which is what you have) should have a parking pawl.  Some PO has messed around with this.  Will have to do some thinking on this...

[pfrederi 17,739]

According to records here 1-0465 should have a piston to piston hydro you have a hydro gear which was on the other 12 hp no name 1-0460.  Either one should have a parking pawl for a brake...

 

Achto was correct you need a spring for the belt tensioner.

 

If you want a parking brake (some people use a piece of 4x4 ) you will have to open up  the transaxle and put in a pawl and ad the external lever shown in Achto's picture.

 

Somebody messed around with this. Parking pawl failed and they removed it???  if so was the the hydro damaged by the metal chips that came off the bad pawl???  Does the hydro have good power???

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Well something ain't right here...Hydro gear (which is what you have) should have a parking pawl.  Some PO has messed around with this.  Will have to do some thinking on this...

Yes sir.I’m looking for more info on this now.

I took a couple picks on what to look for when adjusting speed control in case someone else needs it since the manual isn’t too clear.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Wheelhorse#1

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

27 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

According to records here 1-0465 should have a piston to piston hydro you have a hydro gear which was on the other 12 hp no name 1-0460.  Either one should have a parking pawl for a brake...

 

Achto was correct you need a spring for the belt tensioner.

 

If you want a parking brake (some people use a piece of 4x4 ) you will have to open up  the transaxle and put in a pawl and ad the external lever shown in Achto's picture.

 

Somebody messed around with this. Parking pawl failed and they removed it???  if so was the the hydro damaged by the metal chips that came off the bad pawl???  Does the hydro have good power???

 

Parking Brake ? We don’t need no stinking parking  break 😆

I think the fellow who I bought this from may have had his hands in this, he also painted it, good lord what a mess.

Anyway as far as the hydro goes it’s got good power although a bit noisy at times.

 I can add a spring,easy enough.

 

My first hydro and probably my last.I like the older gear driven stuff.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Wheelhorse#1

[ebinmaine 67,496]

I'll be following...

 

I have a 1970 Charger hydro transmission I'll be disassembling soon. 

If the park pawl fits I'd give a good deal on it. 

 

This one is the "hoop" style. 

Later ones were multi tooth. 

 

 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

I'll be following...

 

I have a 1970 Charger hydro transmission I'll be disassembling soon. 

If the park pawl fits I'd give a good deal on it. 

 

This one is the "hoop" style. 

Later ones were multi tooth. 

 

 

Sure let me know when you do.Ill probably  take the trans apart at some point in the future.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Wheelhorse#1

[daveoman1966 3,751]

Two types of Parking Pawls as shown here.  Either one is suseptable to wear, usually from pulling UP the hydro engagement lever (Parking Brake Handle) while in motion.  NEVER do that...NEVER. If you do, small chips/filings break off and enter the hyd fluid which tears up soft brass parts in the hyd pump.  Your Hydrogear would have the loop style # 5996.  

ANOTHER consideration to your neutral problem MAY be worn out parts in motion control...specifically the ECC cam follower # 5995 and the nylom cam #5996...shown here.  After 50+ years, BOTH of these lose their 'positive' fit and become sloppy, at best.  You can buy new the Nylon Cam for less than $20, and I have NEW Cam Follower # 5995 (no longer available).     

[Achto 27,571]

3 hours ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

My first hydro and probably my last.I like the older gear driven stuff.

 

Spend some time mowing lawn or clearing snow and you'll quickly fall in love with a hydro. The ability to switch directions by simply moving the lever forward and back is very handy.

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

19 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

Two types of Parking Pawls as shown here.  Either one is suseptable to wear, usually from pulling UP the hydro engagement lever (Parking Brake Handle) while in motion.  NEVER do that...NEVER. If you do, small chips/filings break off and enter the hyd fluid which tears up soft brass parts in the hyd pump.  Your Hydrogear would have the loop style # 5996.  

ANOTHER consideration to your neutral problem MAY be worn out parts in motion control...specifically the ECC cam follower # 5995 and the nylom cam #5996...shown here.  After 50+ years, BOTH of these lose their 'positive' fit and become sloppy, at best.  You can buy new the Nylon Cam for less than $20, and I have NEW Cam Follower # 5995 (no longer available).     

 

Dave great information.I think this ,as you mentioned,Cam follower/Nylon Cam may be part of my problem.As I adjust it doesn’t seem to stay 100% of the time but a lot  better than it was.The  Adjustment is a very small window between forward,neutral and reverse.

I see wheel horses parts and more has the Nylon Cam.

PM sent 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Wheelhorse#1

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

18 hours ago, Achto said:

 

Spend some time mowing lawn or clearing snow and you'll quickly fall in love with a hydro. The ability to switch directions by simply moving the lever forward and back is very handy.

 

104 -Maybe once I get it working the way it should I could learn to like it.I’ve learned much since I’ve purchased a hydro, Thanks to the great folks here at RS .For me that’s all part of the fun.

[ebinmaine 67,496]

2 hours ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

once I get it working the way it should I could learn to like it.

That's a thing. 

 

BBT and I are hardcore manual transmission folk. 

I've been wanting to try a hydro for snow plowing for several years. 

 

I had the '70 Charger hydro project for awhile. Never could get it quite right. Things were just a tad too worn out. 

 

Now I have the '75 C160 Automatic. 

Whole different story. 

Shifts nice and smooth. Stays where I put the lever. 

It's a game changer. 

Once yours is going the way it should you'll be pretty impressed.