C-125 snow blade mods for easier lifting

[Gregor 4,846]

I have wondered about this before. These are very powerful, and completely self contained. Just needs a battery and a switch. Outboard tilt & trim unit. I'm sure someone could fab something up to mount this up, and lift a blade. For sale on FB from $100 on up.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

@tractorbeast

 

I got to fooling around with an idea that I had about adding a helper spring  this evening.

 

My idea was to take SOME of the weight of the plow off the lift by adding a spring from the front "Tach-A-Matic" down to the plow frame.

 

So I did a quick 'proof of concept'.

 

I cut a piece of 120 pound garage door spring.  ( The COILS are 3 inches, with the two loops it's more like 5 inches from hook to hook )

 

I put a piece of rod into the Tach-A-Matic with the spring around it. (that's an old steering tie rod)

 

On the bottom I clamped a piece of angle steel to the plow frame and with an S-hook attached the spring to that.

 

This picture is with the plow blade in the UP position.  You can see that there's already some stretch to the spring.

 

When I lowered the blade it was nearly effortless, BUT (and that's a BIG BUTT!) the blade did not make it to the ground.  ALMOST... but it sat there and bounced about a half inch from the ground. 

Clearly the spring is too short because with the blade lowered there is WAY TOO MUCH stretch on the spring.  They are not intended or designed to stretch that much!  So the first prototype was a failure.

 

 

 

What is needed is a way to use a LONGER piece of spring so that the spring is not OVER-FLEXED, 

and to make it either adjustable somehow or just keep cutting springs to find a size that will work.

 

 

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

I used a 400lbs actuator at the time, worked flawlessly for doing a 3 car driveway. PROGRESSIVE AUTOMATIONS Electric Linear Actuator 12V

 

i set it up using a solenoid and a rocker switch. 

 

Once I started plowing the road (private drive, county doesn’t plow it), I had to modify my battery box for a marine starting battery, because I was depleting my normal battery. 

[Gregor 4,846]

4 minutes ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

i set it up using a solenoid and a rocker switch. 

Just 1 solenoid? Or one for up, and one for down?

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

Just 1 solenoid? Or one for up, and one for down?

It’s a rocker switch and 1 solenoid. The two work together. 

 

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

Power lift

[Gregor 4,846]

So it powers up, and falls down?

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

Just now, Gregor said:

So it powers up, and falls down?

No… it’s powered up and down…watch the video, you’ll see.

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

Or just build a FEL

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

On 12/10/2021 at 4:14 PM, Gregor said:

I have wondered about this before. These are very powerful, and completely self contained. Just needs a battery and a switch. Outboard tilt & trim unit. I'm sure someone could fab something up to mount this up, and lift a blade. For sale on FB from $100 on up.

Now this would be the way to go, you’ll definitely need to run a marine starting battery though. These 12V (sometimes 24V) will suck a normal battery dead in about 30 minutes.

[Gregor 4,846]

 

18 minutes ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

No… it’s powered up and down…watch the video, you’ll see.

Still don't get it. In my mind, 1 solenoid can power the unit in 1 direction, unless you have the rocker switch after the solenoid. In which case, why the solenoid?

Maybe I need more coffee.

[rmaynard 15,429]

On my old B-100 with a 48" blade and manual lift, I found that anything that I did to make it easier to lift defeated the purpose of having a heavy blade. It would not stay in contact with the pavement. I solved the problem by getting a 416-H with hydro lift. My left shoulder and back appreciates it.

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

11 minutes ago, Gregor said:

 

Still don't get it. In my mind, 1 solenoid can power the unit in 1 direction, unless you have the rocker switch after the solenoid. In which case, why the solenoid?

Maybe I need more coffee.

Winch Solenoid, research that and you’ll understand.

[peter lena 8,588]

@Jeff-C175  done a lot of spring experimentation  (  whew ) , lots of spring types , bend up a strong round stock open hook , as your spring extender / shortener , that s what i do to find the balance point , bolt in eye bolts at hood mount bolt point , very handy , pete 

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

3 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

On my old B-100 with a 48" blade and manual lift, I found that anything that I did to make it easier to lift defeated the purpose of having a heavy blade. It would not stay in contact with the pavement. I solved the problem by getting a 416-H with hydro lift. My left shoulder and back appreciates it.

That’s the perk of running an actuator, it’s powered up and down, even the lightest blade will stay down. 

[Gregor 4,846]

Watched a video.   Never knew there was such a thing.

 

I just keep learnin' and learnin' and learnin'.................

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Gregor

[kpinnc 11,935]

57 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Still don't get it. In my mind, 1 solenoid can power the unit in 1 direction, unless you have the rocker switch after the solenoid. In which case, why the solenoid?

Maybe I need more coffee.

 

Looks like the solenoid has 4 lugs. I'm guessing it is like that for both up and down?

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,297]

I hope this ole goat can splain to you all . If you go to Northern , it sells a toggle switch that can be used with the electric actuator . ( don't buy it it corrodes too fast in humid areas) it is a simple crossing the wires on the switch for the up and down movement of the rod inside the actuator. The switch that Dave recommended is better designed. The actuator acts like the long down force  link that WH made . I have an electric actuator on the rear of my 416-8  "what the what" . I can back up to my yard wagon (fully load) hook up , Thumb the switch and it lifts the load and holds in place ( bought the unit from @Fun Engineer years ago) . If I ever recover from food poisoning (don't ask) . I will take pictures of Dave unit for you guys. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by elcamino/wheelhorse
extra word

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

On 12/12/2021 at 12:03 AM, Jeff-C175 said:

@tractorbeast

 

I got to fooling around with an idea that I had about adding a helper spring  this evening.

My idea was to take SOME of the weight of the plow off the lift by adding a spring from the front "Tach-A-Matic" down to the plow frame.

So I did a quick 'proof of concept'.

I cut a piece of 120 pound garage door spring.  ( The COILS are 3 inches, with the two loops it's more like 5 inches from hook to hook )

I put a piece of rod into the Tach-A-Matic with the spring around it. (that's an old steering tie rod)

On the bottom I clamped a piece of angle steel to the plow frame and with an S-hook attached the spring to that.

This picture is with the plow blade in the UP position.  You can see that there's already some stretch to the spring.

When I lowered the blade it was nearly effortless, BUT (and that's a BIG BUTT!) the blade did not make it to the ground.  ALMOST... but it sat there and bounced about a half inch from the ground. 

Clearly the spring is too short because with the blade lowered there is WAY TOO MUCH stretch on the spring.  They are not intended or designed to stretch that much!  So the first prototype was a failure.

What is needed is a way to use a LONGER piece of spring so that the spring is not OVER-FLEXED, 

and to make it either adjustable somehow or just keep cutting springs to find a size that will work.

 

@tractorbeast

 

OK, here's the second iteration.

 

 

This spring is about an inch and a quarter longer.  Still the 120 lb garage door spring.  I sandwiched the S hook between two pieces of angle steel this time for more secure mounting.   The hook is about an inch higher mounted in this way.  This is about the right amount of stretch for the spring.

 

I put the bathroom scale under the plow blade without the spring and it was 80 pounds.  With this spring it was 40 pounds.  MUCH easier to lift with the handle.

 

 

What I do not know is if this is enough down force to plow snow with.  Only way now is to wait for snow and try it. 

In the meantime I'm going to weld the brackets to the frame.  Even if I don't use them, they won't hurt anything to be there.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

15 hours ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

a solenoid and a rocker switch

 

I saw this controller at NT website that allows one to 'preset' several positions.  One could program this to allow one button push to raise and one push to lower to preset positions.  This would be VERY handy!  I bet it would be a pretty simple matter to mount a pair of 'stomp box' buttons on the foot rest to have foot control of the raise/lower function.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[tractorbeast 27]

On 12/12/2021 at 12:03 AM, Jeff-C175 said:

@tractorbeast

 

I got to fooling around with an idea that I had about adding a helper spring  this evening.

 

My idea was to take SOME of the weight of the plow off the lift by adding a spring from the front "Tach-A-Matic" down to the plow frame.

 

So I did a quick 'proof of concept'.

 

I cut a piece of 120 pound garage door spring.  ( The COILS are 3 inches, with the two loops it's more like 5 inches from hook to hook )

 

I put a piece of rod into the Tach-A-Matic with the spring around it. (that's an old steering tie rod)

 

On the bottom I clamped a piece of angle steel to the plow frame and with an S-hook attached the spring to that.

 

This picture is with the plow blade in the UP position.  You can see that there's already some stretch to the spring.

 

When I lowered the blade it was nearly effortless, BUT (and that's a BIG BUTT!) the blade did not make it to the ground.  ALMOST... but it sat there and bounced about a half inch from the ground. 

Clearly the spring is too short because with the blade lowered there is WAY TOO MUCH stretch on the spring.  They are not intended or designed to stretch that much!  So the first prototype was a failure.

 

 

 

What is needed is a way to use a LONGER piece of spring so that the spring is not OVER-FLEXED, 

and to make it either adjustable somehow or just keep cutting springs to find a size that will work.

 

 

Jeff-C175____I went with two smaller springs I had taken off some other project. I ran a 3/8" rod through where the two hood hinge bolts would go.(pictures to follow) My first attempt

 

came out like your first attempt I think, too much bounce in blade, wouldn't stay down.  I'm going out right now to try and move some gravel, with my second attempt. Let everyone

 

know tonight had it works out, and with pictures.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

I had another idea for the lift function.

 

Attach a cable to the forward part of the plow frame.

Hang a ****** block off the front tach-a-matic  [OMG: the forum censors the word SN4TCH ! ]

Install another pulley  on the plow frame below the one on the tach-a-matic.

 

Install a small winch or linear actuator rearward to pull or release the cable.

This could probably easily use a very small device.

If the bathroom scale measured 80 pounds, one could probably get by with a 150 pound actuator to push / pull the cable.

 

Here's a really crude scribble of what I'm thinking...

 

The "Red Square" thingy is the front tachamatic.  The black square is the 'device' to pull the cable. 

 

I couldn't get it much cruder than that!  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[tractorbeast 27]

4 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I had another idea for the lift function.

 

Attach a cable to the forward part of the plow frame.

Hang a ****** block off the front tach-a-matic  [OMG: the forum censors the word SN4TCH ! ]

Install another pulley  on the plow frame below the one on the tach-a-matic.

 

Install a small winch or linear actuator rearward to pull or release the cable.

This could probably easily use a very small device.

If the bathroom scale measured 80 pounds, one could probably get by with a 150 pound actuator to push / pull the cable.

 

Here's a really crude scribble of what I'm thinking...

 

The "Red Square" thingy is the front tachamatic.  The black square is the 'device' to pull the cable. 

 

I couldn't get it much cruder than that!  

Jeff-C175  well I'm at fail #2. The spring idea will never work. The downward force\ weight of the blade is required for the blade to work properly. I scraped gravel for a few hours today

 

to get ready for a backhoe to destroy my gravel parking spaces to replace a storm drain.which is 2 ft. under the parking area.. IMHO a winch might be ideal for my application. Pull up, drop and repeat.

[Gregor 4,846]

4 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I had another idea for the lift function.

 

Attach a cable to the forward part of the plow frame.

Hang a ****** block off the front tach-a-matic  [OMG: the forum censors the word SN4TCH ! ]

Install another pulley  on the plow frame below the one on the tach-a-matic.

 

Install a small winch or linear actuator rearward to pull or release the cable.

This could probably easily use a very small device.

If the bathroom scale measured 80 pounds, one could probably get by with a 150 pound actuator to push / pull the cable.

 

Here's a really crude scribble of what I'm thinking...

 

The "Red Square" thingy is the front tachamatic.  The black square is the 'device' to pull the cable. 

 

I couldn't get it much cruder than that!  

your plan will definitely work. This little motor would never lift your plow, but it lifted mine just fine. It's just a question of numbers.

[pfrederi 17,681]

At some point wouldn't it be easier  cheaper and more reliable to get a hydro tractor???