C-125 snow blade mods for easier lifting

[Snoopy11 5,714]

@Gregor... I think you would be the only person... maybe on the planet... who has 2 snow blowers on the front of your tractor...

 

If I was going down the road, and saw that on the front of a Wheel Horse... I would absolutely have to stop... and admire... 

 

Don

[Gregor 4,846]

I have ordered a winch, a relay, some switches, I gotta plan.    

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Just now, Gregor said:

I have ordered a winch, a relay, some switches, I gotta plan.    

 

I'm in. 

 

 

Keep us updated... I'll be following. I looove the engineering portion of a build! 

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

8 hours ago, Gregor said:

could I turn it?

 

Won't you be scrubbing the wheels on the blowers sideways when you steer?

 

And how much clearance is there between the yellow circled bars and the front tires?  Enough to turn the wheel?

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

4 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Won't you be scrubbing the wheels on the blowers sideways when you steer?

 

And how much clearance is there between the yellow circled bars and the front tires?  Enough to turn the wheel?

Maybe some caster wheels in order...? 

 

Don

[Gregor 4,846]

1 minute ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Won't you be scrubbing the wheels on the blowers sideways when you steer?

That's what I am doing now. I am trying to eliminate that by lifting the entire unit off the ground.

2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

And how much clearance is there between the yellow circled bars and the front tires?  Enough to turn the wheel?

Yes, there is clearance. It's close, but it clears. The bars can be moved in if I want.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

On 12/15/2021 at 4:23 PM, Handy Don said:

Not logarithmic, proportional. 

weight at the "lift point" = 80 x distance from blade to rear axle ÷ distance from lift point to rear axle pivot

Example for front-ish lift: 

96 lbs = 80 lbs x 60" ÷ 50"

 

Example for mid-hitch-ish lift:

200 lbs = 80 lbs x 60" ÷ 24"

 

Obviously I'm guessing at the distances in the examples! 

 

Similarly for the height (although it's pretty easy to just block up the blade and measure it!

height at lift point = (desired height at blade ÷ distance from blade to rear axle) x distance from lift point to rear axle

Example front-ish"

5" = (6" ÷ 60") x 50"

 

Had a chance to do some measuring today.

 

At the blade, 40" from axle, 20" from axle (where the lift handle attaches to the frame)

 

WITHOUT the added spring:

 

80 lb , 115 lb , 200 lb

 

WITH the added spring:

 

35 lb , 50 lb , 80 lb

 

Distance to rear axle is 70"

 

So lessee how close this ciphers out to.

 

WITHOUT spring:

80 X ( 70 / 40 )  =  140  I measured 115

80 X  (70 / 20 )  =  280  I measured 200

 

revised with more accurate measurements 

 

80 X ( 69 / 42 )  =  131

80 X ( 69 / 23 )  =  240

 

WITH spring:

35 X ( 70 / 40 )  =  61  I measured 50

35 X ( 70 / 20 )  =  122 I measured 80

 

revised:

32 X ( 69 / 42 )  =  57

32 X ( 69 / 23 )  =  96

 

I guess I should go back and check my tape measure!  Or my bathroom scale!  Dang, I hope it's not the scale!  That would mean I really weigh about 250... and I know that ain't so!

 

revised measurements closer!

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Snoopy11 5,714]

14 minutes ago, Gregor said:

That's what I am doing now. I am trying to eliminate that by lifting the entire unit off the ground.

I think Jeff's concern is valid, in that, when it is on the ground, and you are blowing snow, the linear relationship of the fixed wheels on the snowblowers not turning with the front wheels of the tractor could create a problem. If the wheels on the blowers could turn with the front wheels of the tractor (i.e. with the overall direction of the tractor), your problem would be solved. Thus, why I mention caster wheels (exemplary mention). 

 

Think of it as a zero turn mower. Your front wheels are casters as they need to turn 360 degrees when the hydros command direction. The linear relationship of the front wheels must follow the machine.

 

Anybody want the formula for the above?

 

P.S. that doesn't help you get the system off the ground... BUT, that is another discussion. 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

See this here:

 

 

Don

[Gregor 4,846]

7 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

when it is on the ground, and you are blowing snow, the linear relationship of the fixed wheels on the snowblowers not turning with the front wheels of the tractor could create a problem.

I understand with the unit on the ground, if I turn, I am scrubbing the wheels. I have some 4" casters, but I have never figured out a good way to mount them. And besides, this sounds like a lot more fun.  In my favor though, my driveway is straight.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Gregor

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

my driveway is straight.

 

I always have tried to do straight runs with my walk behind simply because it's just too damn hard to turn, scrubbing the front 'feet' sideways... more so probably the fact that there's no differential, just a solid axle.  You can pull a pin on one of the wheels to unlock it to one wheel drive, but then it doesn't have enough traction except in VERY light snow.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

If you took the OEM wheels off, and put a piece of steel across the 2 blowers... extending past the ends of the blowers... maybe 6 inches... you could do something like this (Pardon my horrible art drawing skills...)

 

 

Don

[Gregor 4,846]

30 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

If you took the OEM wheels off, and put a piece of steel across the 2 blowers... extending past the ends of the blowers... maybe 6 inches... you could do something like this

I am not sure what all that would entail, but, these are 1964 Model #1819 Lawn Boy Snowblowers, and somewhat rare. I am reluctant to weld on them, drill holes, or anything else that would permanently deface them. So far, everything I have done to them can be un-done, relatively easy.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

In dat case, @Gregor... maybe something like this? 

 

 

Don

[Handy Don 12,174]

57 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Had a chance to do some measuring today.

 

At the blade, 40" from axle, 20" from axle (where the lift handle attaches to the frame)

WITHOUT the added spring:

80 lb , 115 lb , 200 lb

 

WITH the added spring:

35 lb , 50 lb , 80 lb

 

Distance to rear axle is 70"

 

So lessee how close this ciphers out to.

WITHOUT spring:

80 X ( 70 / 40 )  =  140  I measured 115

80 X  (70 / 20 )  =  280  I measured 200

 

WITH spring:

35 X ( 70 / 40 )  =  61  I measured 50

35 X ( 70 / 20 )  =  122 I measured 80

 

I guess I should go back and check my tape measure!  Or my bathroom scale!  Dang, I hope it's not the scale!  That would mean I really weigh about 250... and I know that ain't so!

 

 

Firstly, I wasn't thinking it through and used a formula that didn't consider the frame's weight.

But secondly, even with a revised formula that factors in the frame and blade separately, I cannot make it box with your observations.

There is some other force at work here or else some aspect of the measurements are off.

Are the 70" and the other measurements from the plow's pivot point in the rear bracket to the bottom edge of the blade and and attachment points for lifting on the frame--i.e. at the point where you are weighing it?

[Gregor 4,846]

Sorry if I have sort-a hijacked your thread @Jeff-C175 but it does all pertain to the same thing.

Laying in bed last night I got to thinking yet again. I hate that. If I am successful in lifting this entire unit off the ground, it's just possible I may be able to eliminate the wheels completely. If not eliminate them, I may be able to raise them off the ground when the blowers are down on theirs skids. Either way, that would cure any scrubbing problem.

[ebinmaine 67,328]

54 minutes ago, Gregor said:

it's just possible I may be able to eliminate the wheels completely

If you have a hard surface driveway eliminating the wheels would be fine. 

On a gravel surface I'd leave them on as a guard against digging in too much.  

[Gregor 4,846]

3 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

f you have a hard surface driveway eliminating the wheels would be fine. 

Concrete

[Gregor 4,846]

Calculating the hypotenuse of a triangle, and determining the stress factor on same, and considering the coefficient of friction between various moving structural components, along with careful algebraic computations, and rigorous testing in my lab, I have determined that simply moving the lift point slightly aft of the unit, I can limit the down travel to the point of contact between the units scraper bar, and the concrete surface. In doing so the wheels will in fact remain in the air, thus eliminating all scrubbing effect on said wheels. ( I have absolutely no idea what any of that means, but don’t it sound impressive? )

 

As a side note.   3  times this morning I have been locked out of Red Square. "CONNECTION HAS TIMED OUT"  Through previous checking it has been determined that the problem lies with my ISP. It doesn't matter which computer I use. But I cannot figure out why ONLY Red Square.  Oh Well.

[Gregor 4,846]

[ebinmaine 67,328]

I feel like I'd put the gusset on the cable side. 

 

Why not do gussets on both sides though??

[Gregor 4,846]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Why not do gussets on both sides though??

Guess I could. Not much chance of it bending backwards though, and if both sides are required, I don't think point "A" has a chance.

[ebinmaine 67,328]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

Guess I could. Not much chance of it bending backwards though, and if both sides are required, I don't think point "A" has a chance.

I can see your logic in that but it isn't necessarily true. 

A long square or round tube as you're using to bolt to the frame will have a fair amount of strength inherently. 

Flat stock of the same weight will be good the wide direction, not so strong the flat way. 

 

I'm thinking the biggest point of stress will be the red arrow joint.  Double up on the strength from the start.  

 

[Gregor 4,846]

9 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm thinking the biggest point of stress will be the red arrow joint.  Double up on the strength from the start.  

 

I may have just figured out a way to cut down on the stress at that point considerably. Might work, might not.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

12 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Are the 70" and the other measurements from the plow's pivot point in the rear bracket to the bottom edge of the blade and and attachment points for lifting on the frame--i.e. at the point where you are weighing it?

 

I wasn't trying to be very precise in making the measurements, more just to get some rough ideas of the amount of force that might be needed for various lift methods.

 

I'll try to get some better measurements today.