Wheel Horse D series Tranny and Steering Gear issues

[tractorhogg 612]

A  guy told me today that he didn't like the D series because the hydros and steering gears were "like glass", I've owned two D series for years and had no issues of this kind and have not heard about this, anyone else hear this?

[RED-Z06 2,245]

I worked 3yrs at a dealer and of the 3 D series i saw in that time, all had broken trannies that parts were NLA for..all were something coming loose and locking it up...none were used for plowing or loader work, just mowing or grading

[tractorhogg 612]

2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

I worked 3yrs at a dealer and of the 3 D series i saw in that time, all had broken trannies that parts were NLA for..all were something coming loose and locking it up...none were used for plowing or loader work, just mowing or grading

So you only saw 3 D series in the shop in 3 years? How many do you think were in the area that didn't have issues? I've pushed over 20 dump truck loads of dirt with mine and graded and plowed a 1/4 mile driveway for years and had no transmission or steering issues. I know the  CASE 400/8000 series had a problem with something coming loose from the bull gear and busting the transmission housing, but what you describe sounds different

[RED-Z06 2,245]

23 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

So you only saw 3 D series in the shop in 3 years? How many do you think were in the area that didn't have issues? I've pushed over 20 dump truck loads of dirt with mine and graded and plowed a 1/4 mile driveway for years and had no transmission or steering issues. I know the  CASE 400/8000 series had a problem with something coming loose from the bull gear and busting the transmission housing, but what you describe sounds different

Hard to say...the D series were incredibly uncommon here, i was honestly surprised to even see 3 examples...the dealer had never sold one.  All 3 had similar complaints, was puttering along and felt like it was getting stuck...they stopped and when they tried to roll it..clank in both directions...one tried to force the issue and broke bad enough it was "permanently in neutral".  Boss worked up estimates, they always needed all the seals, always had axle shaft slop, and you know theres damage inside...he usually ended up saying best case figure 8 hours, and 200 in parts, worst case it gets forklifted onto a trailer.  No one ever wanted to risk the money. 

[tractorhogg 612]

13 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Hard to say...the D series were incredibly uncommon here, i was honestly surprised to even see 3 examples...the dealer had never sold one.  All 3 had similar complaints, was puttering along and felt like it was getting stuck...they stopped and when they tried to roll it..clank in both directions...one tried to force the issue and broke bad enough it was "permanently in neutral".  Boss worked up estimates, they always needed all the seals, always had axle shaft slop, and you know theres damage inside...he usually ended up saying best case figure 8 hours, and 200 in parts, worst case it gets forklifted onto a trailer.  No one ever wanted to risk the money. 

What state was that in?

[RED-Z06 2,245]

15 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

What state was that in?

Florida

[tractorhogg 612]

4 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Florida

Yeah I cant even imagine anyone buying a D series or many wheel hoses for that matter in Florida, seems like a John Deere state. Given the fact that so far there is a lack of substantial information from other people and areas, I'll wait and see if I get any other replies. I guess your problematic wheel horse D series only has tranny issues and not steering gear issues. I wonder if it could be sand. Thanks

[RED-Z06 2,245]

4 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

Yeah I cant even imagine anyone buying a D series or many wheel hoses for that matter in Florida, seems like a John Deere state. Given the fact that so far there is a lack of substantial information from other people and areas, I'll wait and see if I get any other replies. I guess your problematic wheel horse D series only has tranny issues and not steering gear issues. I wonder if it could be sand. Thanks

Simplicity, Deere, Cub..pretty popular down here in that time.  WH never took off, the dealer network dissolved when it started changing hands...

[tractorhogg 612]

5 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Simplicity, Deere, Cub..pretty popular down here in that time.  WH never took off, the dealer network dissolved when it started changing hands...

I noticed the further south you went the more Sears, MTD and Wards tractors you saw, i.e. cheaper machines. Southeners never made the same kind of money as those up north

[oliver2-44 9,850]

6 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

I noticed the further south you went the more Sears, MTD and Wards tractors you saw, i.e. cheaper machines. Southeners never made the same kind of money as those up north

 

Plus up north you wanted a reliable garden tractor to plow snow, mow grass and maybe garden. Down south you only mowed grass and had a family member with a Farmall A or B that plowed everyone’s garden

[RED-Z06 2,245]

1 minute ago, tractorhogg said:

I noticed the further south you went the more Sears, MTD and Wards tractors you saw, i.e. cheaper machines. Southeners never made the same kind of money as those up north

Eh, honestly it was really more of a usefulness thing...down here we needed an effective mowing machine, more than we needed something to do ground engaging work.  Yazoo Master Mowers, Sears FF20/FF24, Deere140H3, 322, 400, 420, 430, Cub Diesels, Simplicity Sovereign..stuff that could handle a larger deck up onto 60"...are still fairly common and were pretty expensive.  Wheel Horse didnt have the big decks on maneuverable mowers that spanned long production runs at the time, only a few models had 3pt hitches...and other manufacturers had expanded up...such as the Cub 154/184/185 Lo-Boy, and Simplicity PowrMax 4040, 4041 and 9020, talking about 1300lb tractors on 29" rear tires, 60" decks, they could do alot of work.

[RED-Z06 2,245]

3 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

Plus up north you wanted a reliable garden tractor to plow snow, mow grass and maybe garden. Down south you only mowed grass and had a family member with a Farmall A or B that plowed everyone’s garden

Down here there were mainly 2 types of family gardens and to this day its the same...its either a small plot you can do with a walk behind tilller, or a few acres and you need more than a garden tractor.  My garden was 100ftx 200ft and soil here is sandy, clay, dense earth...the plow bites and you have to Go...momentum is your friend, if you stop you probably wont be able to get going cleanly again.

[Achto 27,751]

10 hours ago, tractorhogg said:

steering gears were "like glass",

 

This steering part is a common fail on the D-series. The one in this pic was for sale, note that it has a weld repair on it. On the D160 that I have, both arms had been broken off, welded back on and broke off again away from the previous repair.. 

[pacer 3,174]

Well, I guess I'll jump in here and comment since I have owned some 5-6 "Big D's" since the mid 80s (I now am down to 3)

 

The Sundstrand hyd drive for the first  ... few? yrs had a bad problem because of using too small bolts (5/16) in the --- big gear (I cant remember what its called?) and one or more would break and pieces fall to the bottom of the case with the gears rotating would pick up a piece and .... the case was blown. This was later corrrected by using 3/8 bolts, and obviously they will wear and have to be rebuilt - just like the standards.  

 

The Ross steering will wear and cause lot of slop - just like any of the other series, but are fairly easy to rebuild (after you get it off the tractor!!) - I have never seen the piece @Achto is showing to fail. This Ross systems was used in MANY other brands - I even have a small Mitsubishi with FEL and it has Ross steering - (Really fun to steer)

 

My experiences with the some 15-20 different horses I have had is that the D series is no more/no less prone to have problems. Over the years here on the forum I have noticed that the "Big D's" have a sort of ..... love/hate? reputation?

 

Obviously, I'm in the 'love' category

[tractorhogg 612]

1 hour ago, pacer said:

Well, I guess I'll jump in here and comment since I have owned some 5-6 "Big D's" since the mid 80s (I now am down to 3)

 

The Sundstrand hyd drive for the first  ... few? yrs had a bad problem because of using too small bolts (5/16) in the --- big gear (I cant remember what its called?) and one or more would break and pieces fall to the bottom of the case with the gears rotating would pick up a piece and .... the case was blown. This was later corrrected by using 3/8 bolts, and obviously they will wear and have to be rebuilt - just like the standards.  

 

The Ross steering will wear and cause lot of slop - just like any of the other series, but are fairly easy to rebuild (after you get it off the tractor!!) - I have never seen the piece @Achto is showing to fail. This Ross systems was used in MANY other brands - I even have a small Mitsubishi with FEL and it has Ross steering - (Really fun to steer)

 

My experiences with the some 15-20 different horses I have had is that the D series is no more/no less prone to have problems. Over the years here on the forum I have noticed that the "Big D's" have a sort of ..... love/hate? reputation?

 

Obviously, I'm in the 'love' category

11 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

.

On earlier garden tractors most of the front tires and rims were narrower, then in the late 60 early 70s they got fatter, like car tires and people. The D series was both taller and fatter, from a physics standpoint these fat tires were much harder on steering systems than a skinnier tire which has less resistance on the steering parts and allows easier turning, hence the reason why farm tractors generally use a tall skinny tire on the front. I have almost always opted to install bolt on hubs on all of my larger GTs with a taller skinnier tire which I believe might help in the wear on the steering gear. Thanks for all the input

 

 

[pacer 3,174]

Re steering.............

By a ... fluke/chance? I was poking around the scrap yard one day and spotted an ATV with a really nice pair of those knobby tires that are used on them. They were 8" and I bought them (a whole $8!) and I put them on a D ---- well, that was a nice surprise, the D's steering was greatly improved. I would think that with less rubber touching the surface (as, say, turf tires) allowed the improvement.

 

I really dont see a lot of difference in D's and other models ..... one thing for sure, and that is I HAVE to have a 'knob' on any tractor I get!

[pfrederi 17,866]

3 hours ago, Achto said:

 

This steering part is a common fail on the D-series. The one in this pic was for sale, note that it has a weld repair on it. On the D160 that I have, both arms had been broken off, welded back on and broke off again away from the previous repair.. 

 

 

The one on my D when I got it was cracked.  also had to replace some other worn out  broken front end parts..

[tractorhogg 612]

10 hours ago, Achto said:

 

This steering part is a common fail on the D-series. The one in this pic was for sale, note that it has a weld repair on it. On the D160 that I have, both arms had been broken off, welded back on and broke off again away from the previous repair.. 

Do you think that if it was cleaned and more metal added to both arms it would be stronger?

[Achto 27,751]

3 minutes ago, tractorhogg said:

Do you think that if it was cleaned and more metal added to both arms it would be stronger?

 

That may be possible. They are made out of cast iron. I was thinking of fabricating one out of steel, which would be much stronger. Instead I scored one that was in real good shape for $30 to my door. If this one fails I will most likely fabricate one out of steel. 

[tractorhogg 612]

10 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

That may be possible. They are made out of cast iron. I was thinking of fabricating one out of steel, which would be much stronger. Instead I scored one that was in real good shape for $30 to my door. If this one fails I will most likely fabricate one out of steel. 

I was thinking of added inserts in the middle steel using nickel welding rods to weld to cast iron, it helps if you heat the cast iron red hot with a torch and then use a stick welder with nickel rods.