1973 16 automatic won't move

[cafoose 3,355]

My 1973 16 automatic with a 10 hp transplant that I got at the Big Show last June won't move. It happened kind of suddenly. At first reverse motion was slow and weak then forward motion gave out. I checked the axle keys and they are tight and good. The input pulley key is good. The drive belt was worn so I replaced it with a cloth covered belt from Tractor Supply now that is good and functioning properly. I jacked up the rear and turned the tire and the opposite tire rotated the opposite direction so the rear seems good. Fluid level is good. The freewheeling valve is tight and won't turn. However, I had no problem with it moving until now and I have never turned the freewheeling valve. The linkage moves the nylon slider on the pump the full range of travel with no difference. All I can think of is something internal like the pump, accelerator valve or springs, or slippers need attention. I never had a hydro apart but I did replace the diff gears on my 876 hydro with little difficulty.

[squonk 41,319]

Any whining or groaning noises when you move the lever?  ( And no I don't mean from you!) 

[pfrederi 17,866]

Can you push it with tow valve closed??

 

Do you have hydro lift id so does it work??

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by pfrederi

[Ed Kennell 38,634]

You weren't using it to move that 20,000 lb trailer...were you?

[cafoose 3,355]

42 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

You weren't using it to move that 20,000 lb trailer...were you?

I left that trailer in Tennessee I had too much weight on it and bent the axles

 

[cafoose 3,355]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

Any whining or groaning noises when you move the lever?  ( And no I don't mean from you!) 

No abnormal noises except by me

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Can you push it with tow valve closed??

Yes, sorry I forgot to mention that

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Do you have hydro lift id so does it work??

I have a hydro lift but the lever only pushes front. It doesn't seem to pull back. No attachments were ever hooked to it while I had it. Looks like the cylinder is leaking. Fluid level is good. The piston looks to be extended and won't retract. I guess it needs weight to retract.

 

 

 

[pfrederi 17,866]

Sudden failure I would look at transaxle keys...

[cafoose 3,355]

6 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Sudden failure I would look at transaxle keys...

I did and they were fine axles do not turn with the motion lever forward or back and the belt tight and parking lever pushed down.

[daveoman1966 3,760]

As to the hyd control valve... Your setup is all wrong.  It should look like this. (Ignore the 2 little seat stop pads.)  The 'L' shaped lever should move UP and Down...not fwd and bkws. The up/down motion pushes the plunger In/Out for the lift action.

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by daveoman1966

[pfrederi 17,866]

59 minutes ago, cafoose said:

I did and they were fine axles do not turn with the motion lever forward or back and the belt tight and parking lever pushed down.

You said you could push it with the tow valve closed didn't you ??

[Handy Don 12,451]

15 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

As to the hyd control valve... Your setup is all wrong.  It should look like this. (Ignore the 2 little seat stop pads.)  The 'L' shaped lever should move UP and Down...not fwd and bkws. The up/down motion pushes the plunger In/Out for the lift action.

 

@cafoose if you look closely at your video, the spool on the valve isn't moving in and out of the valve body at all because of the incorrectly set up lever (actually, it looks like you don't have the right lever at all ). The end of the spool where the handle is attached also seems coated with rust--I'd clean that up before trying to push the spool inward to prevent rust from corrupting the valve.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Handy Don

[daveoman1966 3,760]

As to no motion...FIRST....Are you SURE the motion control apparatus is NOT BROKEN.  Look at the left side of the Hoodstand to see if this tab is broken...MAY BE the whole problem.  (Last 3 pics posted here) Pull off the inspection cover and have a look-C.

 

SECONDLY:  Fwd or Rev.  MAYBE (likely) the springs in the fwd/rev valves are broken.  Here are the components.  CAUTION...these are NOT identical so don't mix the parts.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by daveoman1966
I thought the 16Auto had the Hydro-Gear unit... WRONG so related pics are deleted..

[Gregor 4,847]

Might help, might not.

 

[cafoose 3,355]

1 hour ago, daveoman1966 said:

Your setup is all wrong

I thought something looked wrong. That's how I got it I need to find the right parts to correct it.

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

You said you could push it with the tow valve closed didn't you ??

Yes I can push it with the tow valve closed

52 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

As to no motion...FIRST....Are you SURE the motion control apparatus is NOT BROKEN.  Look at the left side of the Hoodstand to see if this tab is broken...MAY BE the whole problem.  (Last 3 pics posted here) Pull off the inspection cover and have a look-C.

Haven't looked at that although the nylon cam slider moves up and down when I move the motion lever back and forth

55 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

SECONDLY:  Fwd or Rev.  MAYBE (likely) the springs in the fwd/rev valves are broken.

Thanks, I need to check that when I get a chance

 

[953 nut 55,756]

11 hours ago, cafoose said:

the nylon cam slider moves up and down when I move the motion lever back and forth

But is it changing the position of the cam in your transmission? That little plastic slide can be cracked and fool you into thinking it is changing the cam's position. If that is the problem you can get one on  Cam 5996

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by 953 nut

[squonk 41,319]

19 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

But is it changing the position of the cam in your transmission? That little plastic slide can be cracked and fool you into thinking it is changing the cam's position. If that is the problem you can get one on  Cam 5996

 

Or https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/5996-cam-plate-for-hydrostatic-transmission/

[953 nut 55,756]

1 minute ago, squonk said:

Or https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/5996-cam-plate-for-hydrostatic-transmission/

Thanks Mike, I didn't know Lowell had them,   also his price is better than the eBay sellers are asking.        

[pfrederi 17,866]

Some info in the manuals section indicates the 16hp 1-0440 had a piston to piston not a hydro gear.  What type do you have???

[cafoose 3,355]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

What type do you have???

[cafoose 3,355]

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

But is it changing the position of the cam in your transmission? That little plastic slide can be cracked and fool you into thinking it is changing the cam's position. If that is the problem you can get one on  Cam 5996

 

It is already checked that

[pfrederi 17,866]

18 minutes ago, cafoose said:

Which one does your hydro motor look like. 

 

First one like a figure 8 is Hydro Gear second is Piston to piston.  Makes a difference when dealing with acceleration valves tow valves etc. 

 

 

[cafoose 3,355]

20 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Which one does your hydro motor look like.

@pfrederi First pic is my C-160-10hp. Second is my 876. Looks like I have piston to piston.

 

[pfrederi 17,866]

OK Pisiton to piston.  one thing I am not clear on.  At one point you said you could push the tractor with the tow valve closed.  However you also said when you checked the transaxle  keys

 

I did and they were fine axles do not turn with the motion lever forward or back and the belt tight and parking lever pushed down.

 

That comment would lead me to believe you can't push it tow valve closed.

Keep in mind the transaxle keys mentioned in the diagnostic chart or on the cross shafts inside the transaxle...

[cafoose 3,355]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

That comment would lead me to believe you can't push it tow valve closed

 

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

I did and they were fine axles do not turn with the motion lever forward or back and the belt tight and parking lever pushed down.

Maybe I need to explain what I meant. With the engine running when I move the motion lever forward or backward with the tensioner lever pushed down and the belt tight the tractor will not move like it's in neutral. What I meant by the axles do not turn is the hubs do not turn independent of the axles themselves. The axles and hubs turn together at the same time. Now that I look at what I said it doesn't explain what I actually meant. There are axle keys inside the transaxle that may be bad?

[pfrederi 17,866]

That clarifies it.  You also mentioned that you checked the hub keys and the input pulley to make sure they weren't slipping.  Sudden onset and that you can push it with tow valve closed pretty much points to the transaxle keys.   You said tow valve was closed and had been that way back when it worked  eliminates that , Item 2 the valve pates would be a very slow onset issue..  Have you downloaded the sunstrand manual??