414-8 transaxle drivers side

[Mustang67ford 234]

Working on a 414-8. Looking at the rear axle, it appears the drivers side axle is a little thicker than the passenger side and looks like it has a thicker washer/spacer before the seal and housing.  Is this normal?  Also, if I jack up the rear end, there is a wee little bit of wobble of the rear tire on the drivers side axle.  It seems like there is sleeve over the axle on the drivers side and that sleeve is wobbling a little on the axle.  If I look at the hub from the outside, I can see the wheel and sleeve wobble slightly on the axle.  Couldn't tell from the parts breakdown how the rear end is supposed to look.  Thanks.

I also included a single pic of the passenger side (first pic).  2nd and 3rd are the drivers side in question.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mustang67ford

[Howie 892]

I don't think that is supposed to be in there. Looks like a front wheel bushing to me'

[Mustang67ford 234]

3 minutes ago, Howie said:

I don't think that is supposed to be in there. Looks like a front wheel bushing to me'

Just updated my post slightly.

[Howie 892]

I'll bet someone was having trouble with the hub moving and that was their fix. 

[Mustang67ford 234]

5 minutes ago, Howie said:

I'll bet someone was having trouble with the hub moving and that was their fix. 

I also measured the rear axle hub sidewall thickness, sidewall measured from axle shaft out.  On the passenger side, the hub appears to be 1/2" thick.  On the drivers side, it is about 1/4" thick.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mustang67ford

[Handy Don 12,451]

What @Howie is saying is that someone slipped a bushing over the axle between the hub and the transaxle on that side, possibly because the hub was slipping in and out on the axle. That is NOT the axle you are seeing, it is probably a flanged bushing like you would find in a front wheel.

The effect of having the bushing is to make the axle look thicker and the hub center to look thinner.

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,094]

 

[Mustang67ford 234]

10 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

What @Howie is saying is that someone slipped a bushing over the axle between the hub and the transaxle on that side, possibly because the hub was slipping in and out on the axle. That is NOT the axle you are seeing, it is probably a flanged bushing like you would find in a front wheel.

The effect of having the bushing is to make the axle look thicker and the hub center to look thinner.

 

 

Not quite following what they did.  Any thoughts as to how to take it apart, get it off the axle?  Would the 2 set screws still be in use to hold it on or are they just clamping down on the bushing since the whole thing is a little wobbly?  What do I need to put it back to factory or is this setup ok? 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mustang67ford

[Howie 892]

Just loosen the set screws and see if the hub will slide off. The bushing should just slide off the axle.

If the hub is not tight on the axle it will need replaced. Chdck to see if the keyway in the axle is good

while hub is off.

[Handy Don 12,451]

1 minute ago, Howie said:

Just loosen the set screws and see if the hub will slide off. The bushing should just slide off the axle.

If the hub is not tight on the axle it will need replaced. Chdck to see if the keyway in the axle is good

while hub is off.

Get the tractor up on jack stands for this, of course! 

Also search around and read threads on removing wheel hubs, this is NOT a trivial operation. Hubs are strong but can be broken with the wrong force applied and pulling on the axle can damage parts inside the transaxle.

[Mustang67ford 234]

11 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Get the tractor up on jack stands for this, of course! 

Also search around and read threads on removing wheel hubs, this is NOT a trivial operation. Hubs are strong but can be broken with the wrong force applied and pulling on the axle can damage parts inside the transaxle.

I've been reading about hub removal but thinking this side might be easy since it is already a little wobbly.  Just hoping the axle is not messed up due to this modification that was done to it.

[Mustang67ford 234]

Ok, pulled the hub off.  Here is what I found.  It looks like the hub is normal and the thicker piece and the washer were just spacers as you guys noted.  Not sure, is the hub worn causing the wobble or where do I go with this now?  Also, is that seal normal? Kind of looks loke its justban o-ring.  Didn't poke around at it.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mustang67ford

[oldlineman 1,482]

I would replace the axle seal while hub is off. Check the axle bearing, see if there is any play up and down or front to back, if not replace seal. When replacing hub I would use new set screws and try to get it in the same markes on the axle. They need to be very tight about 30# torque I believe. You can get the seal # from the transmission information at top of page. Good luck, you accomplished the hardest thing already getting the hub off. Bob  

[953 nut 55,756]

Is there any up/down or front/back play on that axle? A bit of in/out play is normal but none the other way. If there isn't up/down or front/back play then the bearing is good and you can replace the axle seal from the outside.  A new SKF 11050 seal should do the trick, any good auto parts store will be able to get you one. The old seal is not too difficult to remove.

@oldlineman types faster than me!

If that hub has any play you should replace it, Lincoln at https://a-ztractor.com/ can fix you up with a good one.

[oliver2-44 9,848]

I’m guessing they put that O-ring there to keep the spacer from damaging the seat….or the seal is bad and the bushing was pressing the O-ring in to act like a seal. 
 

As mentioned check the hub for looseness. Clean the axle and inside the hub.  Lightly File any burrs on the axle from the set screws, also around the jetway and inside the hub as well. Wipe a thin film of oil on the axle. Then put it back on the axle. It should just slide on. Maybe even need a lite hammer tap to go on. If it has more than a tiny bit of wobble it should be replaced. 
 

Thanks for taking the time to keep an old horse working and saving it from the glue factory. 

[oldlineman 1,482]

You can do more than you think, with the help from some great folks here I opened my first 8 speed tranny on a 414-8 this fall do to a broken differential bolt, replaced all bolts, outer axle bearings and seals. Not that hard with help from these guys and some parts from A to Z, great people. Bob

[Mustang67ford 234]

8 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Is there any up/down or front/back play on that axle? A bit of in/out play is normal but none the other way. If there isn't up/down or front/back play then the bearing is good and you can replace the axle seal from the outside.  A new SKF 11050 seal should do the trick, any good auto parts store will be able to get you one. The old seal is not too difficult to remove.

@oldlineman types faster than me!

If that hub has any play you should replace it, Lincoln at https://a-ztractor.com/ can fix you up with a good one.

Thanks for the info.  Didn't get a chance to check axle play yet.

I am assuming you just use an O-ring / seal pick to remove the old seal and tap the new in? 

How do I know if the hub is worn or if its the axle?

I had spoken to Lincoln fron AZ tractor at a show and he was showing me these replacment hubs he makes that eliminates future removal issues and no set screws but they are a bit pricey.  Are they worth it or should I just get a regular used hub?

[953 nut 55,756]

2 hours ago, Mustang67ford said:

I am assuming you just use an O-ring / seal pick to remove the old seal and tap the new in?    I have had good luck driving an awl between the transaxle and the outer rim of the seal then it can be pried out with the awl.

How do I know if the hub is worn or if its the axle?          Axles are hardened steel and hubs are cast Iron, never heard of an axle wearing down.

I had spoken to Lincoln fron AZ tractor at a show and he was showing me these replacment hubs he makes that eliminates future removal issues and no set screws but they are a bit pricey.  Are they worth it or should I just get a regular used hub?         In my opinion a good used hub will last forever if the set screws are tightened properly (35 ft/lb)

 

[Mustang67ford 234]

Checked both axles, just in and out play.  O-ring is on drivers side because seal is bad.  Ps side hub is on good.  Tried a few taps with the slide hammer, didn't budge so starting to soak it down in pb blaster.  I really want to replace seals on both sides, but if I dont see the PS side leaking, maybe I'm pushing my luck to try and remove the hub.

[oldlineman 1,482]

Don't use a slide hammer to pull the hub. There is a " C " clip holding the axle in the differential, and you could dislodge it and have to open up the tranny to repair it. Many topics here showing best ways to pull hubs. Bob  

[Mustang67ford 234]

38 minutes ago, oldlineman said:

Don't use a slide hammer to pull the hub. There is a " C " clip holding the axle in the differential, and you could dislodge it and have to open up the tranny to repair it. Many topics here showing best ways to pull hubs. Bob  

Ok, thanks.  Now that will worry me if I did anything to the clip.  Didn't  go nuts with it so hopefully I didn't cause more of a problem. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Mustang67ford

[Mustang67ford 234]

Looked at a few different methods.  These 2 seemed the most promising since I have the hub from the other side.  I'm going to use the bottle jack method first.

 

[Mustang67ford 234]

Got the hub off, 6 ton bottle jack was about to give up.  Added heat and kept tapping the hub.  Finally it broke free.  Now, hmany hints on removing the old keyway? Its not budging.

[pfrederi 17,866]

Dremel with a cutoff wheel.  Slice the key lengthwise  It is a woodruff key so deeper in the center.  Then chisel to collapse the sides inward and vice grips to pull it out...

[Mustang67ford 234]

Finally! Both hubs off, both keyways out and ready for new seals.  Used a drift and old screwdriver to get the key out.  Now for reassembly, should I put anti seize on all parts or is it the same battle every time the hub has to come off?

Edited December 4, 2021 by Mustang67ford