davem1111 2,030 #1 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) So, some of you may have seen my posts about having troubles with the tranny on my 312-A, and then mentioning that I was looking at buying a 416-8 that I found for a decent price. So yeah, I bought the 416-8 and it needs some TLC but is mostly in good working condition. Put the deck from the 312-A on there and it cuts nicely. In the meantime, the 312-A tranny actually seems to be okay. But I'm going to avoid using it for any heavy work till I've had some more time to check it out. This past weekend I rented a log splitter to split a bunch of ash trees that were dead or dying, that the electric company cut down but left for me at my request. I was going to use the 416-8 to move some wood in a trailer, but the darn thing wouldn't start. It will fire with some ether, but I couldn't see any gas moving through the new fuel filter I put on it after I got it. Took the line off at the top of the pump and cranked it a bit, nothing coming out. Fuel runs freely from the intake line from tank. So I pulled the pump off to look at it but can't see anything wrong. I've seen a few threads in here that mention electric pump replacements, so I'm thinking about going that route. I think the 2.5-4 psi electric pumps are about half the cost of an OEM replacement. Can anyone summarize the Pros and Cons of going this route, and any advice or warnings about wiring, etc.? Also, in the meantime the 312-A doesn't want to start either. It would be very odd for the fuel pump to die on both of them at the same time so it's probably something else, but I may go ahead and buy 2 electric pumps and convert that one too. After all that wood splitting I've been too damn tired to mess with either of them, but not too tired to order some parts. Just wondering which way to go with it. Thanks! Edited November 30, 2021 by davem1111 oops, said 12 hp 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,634 #2 Posted November 30, 2021 , @davem1111 carbole electric pumps ,https://www.amazon.com/CarBole-Universal-2-3-5P-S-I-Operating-Self-Priming/dp/B01IR6BNKY/ref=asc_df_B01IR6BNKY , have this on my horse now a couple of years , lowest pressure , internal relief valve , hook up to ignition switch , very reliable and very quiet , also upgraded to clear fuel rated vinyl hose , added line fuel filter , also added a fuel check valve , VERTICALLY just under carb , for instant fuel to carb. very good pump , and a good price , pete 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,741 #3 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) I can't speak to Onans, don't have any. For the Kohlers when a fuel pump start to leak or otherwise fail i go electric (I think I have 5 now). Facet Posi flo made in USA I have used both the 60304 1-2PSI and the 60245 1.5 -4psi. I had a cheap knock off pump failed after a few hours no issues with the posiflos. US Made may cost a bit more but.... I wire them to ACC. Turn on ignition you can hear them clicking as pressure builds up click changes and you can start up. The have an internal fuse 3.5 amps and draw very little current. Some say overhaul the existing metal fuel pump on the Kohler...but the price of the rebuild kit is about same as the posiflo. and if the Rebuild fails you might be pumping gas into your crankcase Edited November 30, 2021 by pfrederi 3 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roadapples 6,983 #4 Posted November 30, 2021 Agree, and if there using them on small planes, I trust them on a tractor... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacer 3,173 #5 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) This would be the B43 Onan? Thats what mine is and I was having ... 'gas flow?' problems (no, not THAT kind) with the carb 'flooding' needle/seat just wouldnt close off and I had changed them with limited help. So, I had a couple lectric pumps laying around - unknown psi - and both of them made the problem worse. I eventually ordered up one of the original pulse types and the problem went away. So. what I'm leading up to is the PSI of the pump is gonna (probably) need to be low on that Onan (Love these Onans, but danged if they aint .... finiky!), I've never had a problem with the lectric pumps on any of the Kohlers - I'm running 4 now. "might be pumping gas into your crankcase" Forgot to add that that happened twice during my episode, Lost almost 2 gallons of fresh oil. Luckily? when youi go to start it just locks up with the cyls also full of gas - be a disaster if it should start with about a gallon of gas mixed in the oil, Edited November 30, 2021 by pacer 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davem1111 2,030 #6 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, pacer said: This would be the B43 Onan? Thats what mine is and I was having ... 'gas flow?' problems (no, not THAT kind) with the carb 'flooding' needle/seat just wouldnt close off and I had changed them with limited help. So, I had a couple lectric pumps laying around - unknown psi - and both of them made the problem worse. I eventually ordered up one of the original pulse types and the problem went away. So. what I'm leading up to is the PSI of the pump is gonna (probably) need to be low on that Onan (Love these Onans, but danged if they aint .... finiky!), I've never had a problem with the lectric pumps on any of the Kohlers - I'm running 4 now. "might be pumping gas into your crankcase" Forgot to add that that happened twice during my episode, Lost almost 2 gallons of fresh oil. Luckily? when youi go to start it just locks up with the cyls also full of gas - be a disaster if it should start with about a gallon of gas mixed in the oil, Yikes - I hadn't considered that the fuel could be going through a busted diaphragm into the crankcase but I can see how that could happen. I don't know where to find the "B43" or whatever Onan model number. The manuals I have (from Toro website) say "94-1810 Engine-Onan", the pump is listed as part #57-9080. Those Facet pumps are a bit pricey but I'd rather pay more for something that won't crap out on me in a few years (or months). Maybe I'll wait a few days till I have time to mess with it some more before buying anything. Actually, I missed the post about the CarBole pump before I wrote this. Those are more "affordable". One question though: If you go with an electric, do you need to put the old pump back on just as a "cover"? Or is there a better way to plug that hole? Edited November 30, 2021 by davem1111 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,741 #7 Posted November 30, 2021 41 minutes ago, davem1111 said: Yikes - I hadn't considered that the fuel could be going through a busted diaphragm into the crankcase but I can see how that could happen. I don't know where to find the "B43" or whatever Onan model number. The manuals I have (from Toro website) say "94-1810 Engine-Onan", the pump is listed as part #57-9080. Those Facet pumps are a bit pricey but I'd rather pay more for something that won't crap out on me in a few years (or months). Maybe I'll wait a few days till I have time to mess with it some more before buying anything. Actually, I missed the post about the CarBole pump before I wrote this. Those are more "affordable". One question though: If you go with an electric, do you need to put the old pump back on just as a "cover"? Or is there a better way to plug that hole? Carbole is a registered trademark of an unpronounceable company...Want to guess where the pumps were made... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davem1111 2,030 #8 Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, pfrederi said: Carbole is a registered trademark of an unpronounceable company...Want to guess where the pumps were made... Well, crap. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm definitely on board for cutting back on buying junk made in China. Facet Posi-Flo is made in Elmira, NY. Will go with the "Made in USA" for sure. It's worth the extra bucks. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregor 4,846 #9 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, davem1111 said: Those Facet pumps are a bit pricey but I'd rather pay more for something that won't crap out If you think the Facet is pricey, skip this post. This is the pump I use. I have it on several Kohlers, but I do not own an Onan. I have tried cheaper pumps. They tend to flood the carb, regardless of what their "posted" psi is. This is the only electric fuel pump I will use. Fuel Pump Edited November 30, 2021 by Gregor 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldlineman 1,481 #10 Posted November 30, 2021 I went electric with a Facet Posi-Flo several years ago on a 1989 414-8 M14 Kohler, best thing I ever did.You can leave the old pump on to cover the hole or make or buy a cover plate to do it. Bob 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davem1111 2,030 #11 Posted November 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, Gregor said: If you think the Facet is pricey, skip this post. This is the pump I use. I have it on several Kohlers, but I do not own an Onan. I have tried cheaper pumps. They tend to flood the carb, regardless of what their "posted" psi is. This is the only electric fuel pump I will use. Fuel Pump I appreciate any and all info I can get. The only thing that concerns me with this Mr. Gasket pump is that it looks almost exactly like the CarBole pump, so I'd bet a small amount of money that Mr. Gasket is sourcing those from the same factory and marking them up. Happy to see proof otherwise. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,150 #12 Posted December 1, 2021 12 hours ago, Gregor said: If you think the Facet is pricey, skip this post. This is the pump I use. I have it on several Kohlers, but I do not own an Onan. I have tried cheaper pumps. They tend to flood the carb, regardless of what their "posted" psi is. This is the only electric fuel pump I will use. Fuel Pump That's the PosiFlo with another sticker on it. Also same as the Napa 610-1051 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 708 #13 Posted December 5, 2021 Personally I have never had much problems with the pulse pumps myself, the gasket around the edge between the two halves seems to go before the diaphragm. Amazon has generic pumps that seem to last just as long as the OEM ones for about $20. Not sure what the electric pumps cost but it’s less work to just slap a new pump on. Just my 2 cents though. Andrew 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,307 #14 Posted December 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said: Personally I have never had much problems with the pulse pumps myself, the gasket around the edge between the two halves seems to go before the diaphragm. Amazon has generic pumps that seem to last just as long as the OEM ones for about $20. Not sure what the electric pumps cost but it’s less work to just slap a new pump on. Just my 2 cents though. Andrew I use the original pumps and never had one fail. If a tractor with the original pumps aren't started regularly, they do take some time to fill the carburetor. An electric pump or a primer bulb will eliminate the slow starts. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,085 #15 Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, lynnmor said: I use the original pumps and never had one fail. If a tractor with the original pumps aren't started regularly, they do take some time to fill the carburetor. An electric pump or a primer bulb will eliminate the slow starts. I'm a believer on the primer bulbs for any WH with the fuel tank under the seat. If nothing else, they save your battery. No sense needing 30-45 seconds of crank to get fuel in the carb... Primer bulbs let me know immediately if an engine isn't starting for a legitimate reason, because they crank on the first turn if nothing is wrong. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
