Making sure....

[JoeM 7,874]

Pulled out the back-up generator the other day to test run. Just making sure everything is tickety-boo...... Well not.

 

I use non e fuel and run r dry when I put it away and still had carb issues. It has not been run in a while, i would say spring. maybe last winter, it has been a while.

 

Would not run without choke. So take it to the shop do the carb cleaning, oil, air filter, fuel line (seemed brittle), and a new fuel filter. 

 

Test run great, no issues other than one 120v receptacle was kind of loose. (ended up having a crack). Of course, the receptacles are commercial grade and I did not have any. 

 

Got the new receptacles installed and went to start it and no run. Wasn't getting gas.

 

The new inline MTD fuel filter was the fault. Could just barely blow through it and when put in place on gravity feed... no dice! 

Tank, fuel lines all cean. The carb really didn't seem to bad when I cleaned it.

 

Out of the scores of fuel filters I have replaced I never had this happen. Might cut it open in a day or two to take a look. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,653]

5 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Might cut it open in a day or two to take a look

If you do, keep us posted. I'd be curious to know what happened. 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I... have puzzled and puzzed until my puzzler is sore...

 

 

I got nothing on this one... 

 

Don

[WHX?? 48,833]

Here too Joe, was it just one of those red or white plastic screen filters or the clear media type? Funny you should bring this up I just pulled the oil out of mine and changed the oil filter. I should/will add a fuel filter. I get the clear cheapys in bulk from the jungle. Last batch even had a magnet inside of them.  Like your gennys  mine all sit for months without seeing any action but I do toss a little seafoam in. Thanks good reminder to run them dry. Better yet get them out for exercise.  Gotta remember to clean that spark arrester too. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by WHX??

[Snoopy11 5,714]

5 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

I get the clear cheapys in bulk from the jungle

I'll wager that you buy the same ones I do...

 

Don

[WHX?? 48,833]

11 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

I'll wager that you buy the same ones I do...

Ya got 30  to feed ya gotta buy in bulk....

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 minute ago, WHX?? said:

Ya got 30  to feed ya gotta buy in bulk....

That's for sure.

 

Odd, "name brand" fuel filters are 10$ a piece at home improvement stores... when I can by a butt-load of them for the same price from the Amazon... 

 

Don

[ebinmaine 67,653]

Last bunch I got was Sten's brand. Bag of 25 for about $43 I think. 

[WHX?? 48,833]

Sounds about right EB....yah... it a Generac @Achto.... pass me down from dad so whats a guy gonna do but it always starts on 2nd pull and came in handy when that storm went thru up nort. Sis ran it for days so figured it was due for some love. Had the original oil and filter on it. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by WHX??

[Achto 27,609]

7 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

it a Generac

 

And despite that fact it ran anyway? 

 

I usually dry the carb up on my 8kw Baldor gen after every use, mainly cause I never know when it will be started again.

[WHX?? 48,833]

Not to jack your thread here Joe but while we are on gennys I pulled this one out to see if she would fire. Vintage K91 ... that did run quite well last time I lit a fire but since gennies were the project of the day. No filter but a bowl that had brown gas in it but not the smell of old gas. You guys know.... and cleaned that out. What's that saying Squonky @squonk ther are sediment bowls that don't leak and ther are ones that are gonna!?!? 

But anyhoo cleaned the  bowl and dumped  100 % seafoam in her. Tank  was dead dry and little rust . Did I do the right thing here? I know I ran her dry befor I layed her up. Have not tried to start it but feeling I should just to keep her loose. 

[echris 1,425]

This may sound silly, but are you sure you had the fuel flowing going the correct direction through the fuel filter? I don't know how common they are, but back in the day I remember fuel filters with check valves built-in.

[WHX?? 48,833]

Not at all Chris... how many times have we  been told by  the..... missus . Is there gas in the tank? 

[squonk 41,158]

I have seen those clear plastic filters air lock more than once.

 

Buy the packaged 4 cycle fuel from Lowes, TSC ect. 3 year.shelf life. Store it with that in the tank and carb. Also will.keep the air out of the filter.because you don't run it dry.

 

[ebinmaine 67,653]

7 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Not at all Chris... how many times have we  been told by  the..... missus . Is there gas in the tank? 

 

Me?

Not. Ever. Today anyway. (She ain't awake yet)

 

[JoeM 7,874]

It is all pretty odd.

The fuel was even new non e clean gas. 

I am starting to think like Mike about not running them dry. I know when I used ethanol fuel it seemed to help.

This is the brand filter I used. I am still going for cutting the old one apart.

 

 

7 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Tank  was dead dry and little rust . Did I do the right thing here? I know I ran her dry befor I layed her up. Have not tried to start it but feeling I should just to keep her loose.

Wonder how well that stabile 360 works on keeping the metal tanks in good condition? They say that is it's claim to fame.

[ebinmaine 67,653]

54 minutes ago, JoeM said:

metal tanks

I wonder what it does chemically to make that claim

[squonk 41,158]

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

It is all pretty odd.

The fuel was even new non e clean gas. 

I am starting to think like Mike about not running them dry. I know when I used ethanol fuel it seemed to help.

This is the brand filter I used. I am still going for cutting the old one apart.

 

 

Wonder how well that stabile 360 works on keeping the metal tanks in good condition? They say that is it's claim to fame.

Joe, that's the style filter that I had the air lock problems with.

[JoeM 7,874]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I wonder what it does chemically to make that claim

I looked at what the vintage car guys use. They have a lot of metal tanked and fuel lines in their cars.

 

They say the culprit is water drawn into the fuel as a result of alcohol. Removing water removes corrosion??? Makes sense.  

 

This is what was on the vintage car Hagerty Tech Media Page.

Yes, almost all of these mixtures help in some fashion, but a few caused damage in other ways compared to the test’s control sample. A few of the products tested led to greater corrosion, due to a lack of additive preventing the growth of rust and allowing a greater ingress of moisture. That moisture will—at best—make for a hard starting car in the spring and a rusty mess of a fuel system if left alone too long. Our vintage cars often have steel fuel lines and tanks, so any moisture just sitting around is bound to cause trouble.

In the end, the best solution with a vintage engine is to start with non-ethanol fuel. Fuel blends contain a lot of additives already and, as pointed out in the video, if there was one miracle cure that could be added to fuel to prevent all such problems, it would likely already be in the gas from the pump. Ethanol is what causes most of the problems associated with long-term fuel storage in an old car or bike. Barring the option of getting pure gas (also known as recreation gas), K100 and STA-BIL came out on top as recommended from the products sampled because STA-BIL and K100 both reduced the absorption of moisture and reduced corrosion.

This video was on the site too. Entertaining, yes. Agree maybe, maybe not. The scary part is the jar with the ethanol pearls swerling about. Seen those in some carbs even after using an additive. Since I went to non e fuel those left town. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by JoeM

[ebinmaine 67,653]

29 minutes ago, JoeM said:

They say the culprit is water drawn into the fuel as a result of alcohol. Removing water removes corrosion??? Makes sense

 

Joe I can't read that attachment because it went vertical on my phone for some reason.

 

First things first. Let's make it clear once again that I'm NO proponent of ethanol and I think it's a mistake that it's in ANY gasoline on road or off.

 

I've never seen any proven science that shows ethanol ATTRACTS water.  Until that's proven wrong I'm going to operate under the assumption that the water is getting into the fuel system via condensation.

 

I do most certainly agree that removing water would remove most or even all of the corrosion. 

 

The best way to prevent condensation is of course to remove most of the air volume from the vessel containing the gasoline.

 

I know there's quite a few of us on this site that do believe in fuel additives and cleaners and I have great respect for the opinions and experiences of those folks.

I don't use additives. I haven't used them in quite a good many years.

I also don't have any fuel related issues or starting problems since switching to non-ethanol gasoline.

 

I like to run metal tanks on my tractors even if they were built with plastic ones just because I like the look better.

The one that's on my Cinnamon Horse C160 does have a little bit of residue floating around in the bottom.

That tractor has been together for about 2 years now I think?

I'm honestly not sure if the residue was there the whole time and I just never noticed it or if it's something that has been slowly collecting.

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

Joe, that's the style filter that I had the air lock problems with.

I use them on all my machines.. Can't say how well they do, due to the low hours I have with them. 

 

I am experimenting with 2stroke mix with E gas. to see if it will prevent that nasty stuff.

[squonk 41,158]

I had a 210-H. 10HP Briggs and the gas tank way above the carb. If I installed that filter or ran it out of gas it would air lock and not let gas flow thru. I would have to take the hose off the carb inlet and get gas flowing then stick the hose back on. first I thought it was just the filter but I tried another and the same thing. These were good Wix filters too. Napa # 3011

[JoeM 7,874]

26 minutes ago, squonk said:

If I installed that filter or ran it out of gas it would air lock and not let gas flow thru

Exactly what happened here. 

This one is installed is vertical. Might make it worse. IDK? 

Going back to the round barrel type Kohler.

I am going to give that a try and run her dry. Wait a day and see.

I will post later in the week on the result. 

 

 

 

 

[WHX?? 48,833]

Good post Joe Thanks... One thing the vintage car guys or the video doesn't mention unless I missed is it best to store things with a full or empty tank regardless if plastic or metal. Hi test gas or Squonky's canned fuel of course if full.  

Just out of curiosity Joe how much gas was in your tank. Thinking if it was more towards full it would push more against an air locked filter? 

Kinda like a gravity fed RJ or 'burb that gets starved for gas as the tank gets empty. 

[ebinmaine 67,653]

52 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

am experimenting with 2stroke mix with E gas. to see if it will prevent that nasty stuff

 

I have yet to see chemical proof done in a study by an unpaid not marketing third party that proves to me there is any additive that will negate the effects of alcohol on a small engine carburetor in the manner of collecting pearls or goop in the bottom of the bowl or the drying effects on rubber that is not specifically made for ethanol usage.

 

I'm absolutely open to changing my mind if I see that it can be done and at that point I would possibly consider switching over to that additive instead of using non-e fuel if it was less expensive and easy to get.

 

Maxwell, I've seen write ups online that explain what you are doing can't work.

Simply put, you are mixing two-stroke oil with another petroleum product, gasoline.

 

Both oil products. Both mix fine.

Oil products mix with alcohol.

Alcohol mixes with water.

 

Oil and water will not solute together when combining the three above things.

 

That in particular is why it is so dangerous to use ethanol gas in two-stroke engines.

Whatever water is absorbed into the ethanol that is contained in the gasoline will displace that identical amount of oil thereby reducing the protection on the internals of the engine.

From what I'm seeing that amount is minuscule but I can see the logic.

Over a period of time that ranges from weeks to years depending on a lot of variables the water and ethanol combination pieces can and do settle out of the system.