Balance gears K321

[kpinnc 12,111]

FILs Charger- I couldn't leave it alone. I decided to get the balance gears out.

 

 I got the snap rings off, and the bottom gear out. What is the trick to the top one? It will not come out no matter where I rotate the crank. The galley for the rear starter bolt is in the way. Do I drive out the shaft for it?

[Snoopy11 5,714]

You... know how we are... 

 

Don

[kpinnc 12,111]

Here ya go:

[Snoopy11 5,714]

You took the retaining clips out and still can't get it out?

 

Mine... usually come right out with a little fidgeting and sometimes a little help from my tiny hammer... 

 

Don

[953 nut 55,325]

11 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Do I drive out the shaft for it?

   This post should be helpful.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

'specially the part... As for the top gear...... split it with a cold chisel and it will come right off.

 

[kpinnc 12,111]

Ok, so he drove out the pin and then back when finished. Makes sense. I was hoping for something simpler, but I can definitely do that.

 

I've removed balance gears several times, but only during a rebuild. Never done it on an engine I planned to keep together during the process.

 

Thank you!

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Just now, kpinnc said:

Ok, so he drove out the pin and then back when finished. Makes sense. I was hoping for something simpler, but I can definitely do that.

 

I've removed balance gears several times, but only during a rebuild. Never done it on an engine I planned to keep together during the process.

 

Thank you!

I could have sworn that I did it without driving out the pin... but there again... I could be nuts... 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

AHA! I figured it out...

 

I totally neglected what engine this was... 

 

I was thinking K241... my fault. Sorry, I wasn't paying attention... 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

The crank throw on that 341 will never let you get it out without more work...

 

Don

[kpinnc 12,111]

Success!!!!

 

Thanks fellas!

 

Notice the bearings? I think this was a good thing to do! I babied these things, so this was about to fail anyway!

Edited November 28, 2021 by kpinnc

[Snoopy11 5,714]

DAD GUM...

 

VERY good thing that you took this apart... 

 

Don

[oliver2-44 9,764]

So @kpinnc how did you drive the pin out?  Did you drive it inwards?

[kpinnc 12,111]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

So @kpinnc how did you drive the pin out?  Did you drive it inwards?

 Outside in. No way to go inside out with the crankshaft installed.

 

Same on the install. Outside in. I know the cam pin only goes one way, but I never thought about the pin for the balance gears being the same. They are heavily beveled on the outside (bottom), and I thought that was to help stop swedging the end you tap on.

Edited November 28, 2021 by kpinnc

[ebinmaine 67,671]

An interesting subject to me as I have 2 K341 engines. 

 

Is the balance gear removal something that can be done without removing a bunch of other things or will the block need to be nearly emptied?

 

Anyone have or know of the balance plate put out by ((maybe Kirk??)).  

[squonk 41,161]

Found remnants of a balance gear needle in the pan of my C160 a couple of years ago along with a piston skirt.

.

 

 

 

[pacer 3,174]

GEEZ!! those dang "grenade" gears!!

 

2-3 yrs ago I picked up a ---- something? with a K341 and pretty quickly got it running so decided to give er a test job and proceeded to cut some grass. It ran really well, no smoke, etc, but had an ....odd .... rattling sound? After bout 30 mins I got really nervous about continuing and went back to the shop. I think there had recently been a couple posts here re the "grenade gears" so I went into it. Those pics @kpinnc show could be pics of what I found! ------ Whew, close call!!

[OoPEZoO 525]

Sooooo.....I gotta ask......with zero plans of a rebuild at this time on my tractor, is removing the balance gears an afternoon job, weekend job, or gonna be out of commission for a week or so job?

 

I'm up over 1000hrs on my 85' 314-8.  I'm assuming the motor has never been off the frame.  I've had it for around 16yrs and it runs great and doesn't smoke except a quick puff on startup.  Doesn't burn any noticeable oil between changes.......BUT, these damn gears have been a concern in the back of my mind for years.  I keep thinking I'm running on borrowed time and would hate to lose my motor to something that doesn't need to be in there.  I'm plenty mechanically inclined to get them out without too much trouble, but I've never worked on one of these Kohlers other than the general maintenance needed on the tractor I have (which has honestly been very little).  Its been as reliable as a hammer so far.  These pics of those needle bearings starting to fail haunt my dreams.

Edited November 28, 2021 by OoPEZoO

[oliver2-44 9,764]

@OoPEZoO I's say it's an all day job. You could probable do it in less, but by the time you pull the motor, give it and the engine bay a good cleaning, fuss with some wires, etc......Then you decide to paint the engine and tins and it becomes a week job

While you have it off and the bottom open is a great time to take some solvent and wash out the inside of the block since they don't have a filter.  You could also use a can of Brake Clean to clean it out. 

If you do this be sure to squirt some clean oil on thing before you reassemble it.

 

PS.  I used a sharp chisel places in the boot om the gear tooth and a good hammer smack to remove the gears.  I was amazed how easy they split.  I figured I was going to have to use progressively harder hits, but they popped the first smack. 

 

A couple of months ago I opened a parts K301 engine to measure the crank, and the gears were wobbly. I don't know how many hours were on it, but they were on their way to exploding.

[pacer 3,174]

45 minutes ago, OoPEZoO said:

Sooooo.....I gotta ask......with zero plans of a rebuild at this time on my tractor, is removing the balance gears an afternoon job, weekend job, or gonna be out of commission for a week or so job?

(I see @oliver2-44 has beat me to reply and covers a lot of my post)

 

Well .... you gotta pull the engine cause the pan has to come off. Once the pan is off its a few mins job at that point  -- but, (theres that 'but') getting to that point is a bit more time consuming, and - to my thinking - if you are at that point I'd do some further cking. At a minimum get the chafe cleaned off the fins - if you got that many hrs and never done that, its almost certain to have some buildup.

 

Personally, I would go ahead and pull the head and ck cyl and valves condition. And, with the the really low cost of 'rebuild' kits available now, and if everything looks OK, I'd replace the piston, rod and rings. etc

[oliver2-44 9,764]

@pacer we Southern Gentlemen do stick together and think alike!

[OoPEZoO 525]

So, you're telling me that I need to go ahead and pick up a 2nd tractor to pick up the slack while I go down the rabbit hole?  Thats exactly what I was telling the wife.  Thanks for the info.  Might be a good project for that short window of time between last snow and first mow this spring.

[pacer 3,174]

10 minutes ago, OoPEZoO said:

Thats exactly what I was telling the wife.  

 

Heh! when you hang around this place, first thing you know is youre an addict  -' Wheel Horse addict.' And since you spotted that 'opening' to use as an excuse .... well, I think you may have caught it already!!

[ebinmaine 67,671]

1 hour ago, pacer said:

use as an excuse

 

 

I was always taught there's a HUGE difference between an excuse and a reason. 

 

If the OP can JUSTIFY getting another Horse because the first needs maintenance then I do believe we have a real live reason. 

 

[squonk 41,161]

1 hour ago, OoPEZoO said:

So, you're telling me that I need to go ahead and pick up a 2nd tractor to pick up the slack while I go down the rabbit hole?  Thats exactly what I was telling the wife.  Thanks for the info.  Might be a good project for that short window of time between last snow and first mow this spring.

Or another engine. Over 1000 hours. Should be overhauled. 2 guys in VA have rebuilts @richmondred01 @oldredrider

Edited November 28, 2021 by squonk