417A "idiot lights" board fried

[Cee245 818]

Ive been going over this Wheel Horse 417 lately and I'm just trying to fix it up a little when I get time. The plan is for it to be used as plow tractor only.

 

Ran into this the other day while I was putting a flange bushing on my steering wheel shaft. (I found thread on here somewhere, Works good!)

 

....my idiot lights have never worked since I've owned. Now I see why... looks like the circuit board for the little red light cluster is toast.

 

I would like to eliminate the thing and make my wiring simpler.  Not great in electrical, but I can follow directions.

Ideally I'd like to have the neutral safety switch, lights (front and rear), and anything else needed to run.  Anyone have a simple diagram by chance? I can get the files on here, btw

 

Thanks

[midpack 866]

Just unplug it and throw it away. I had a 312 with one, used the idiot lights to help swap the wiring safety switches from K wiring to a magneto harness in a different machine, then put the light board in the "extra parts" bin.

No problems 

[ebinmaine 67,496]

41 minutes ago, midpack said:

Just unplug it and throw it away

That's pretty much what I was thinking. 

 

@JCM Jim and I just went through a 417A checking the wiring over a few weeks ago. 

 

Here's is a pic a of print I did right from Redsquare.  .  

 

 

I know enough of the less complicated schematics to get a tractor rewired and running but the testing board circuit adds more than I've tried to diagnose. 

We were able to trace enough wires and check the circuits to get this tractor running but the harness has been modified by a PO. 

 

It appears that the hour and volt meters may run through the board. 

[953 nut 55,228]

Essentially the wires that go to the idiot lights serve no function other than providing power to the idiot lights. If you follow each wire back to the switch or sender it gets an input from, cut it off and remove it you are done.            Or you could just wrap the connector from the idiot light board in electrical tape and move on with the rest of the project.

[ebinmaine 67,496]

6 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

wrap the connector from the idiot light board in electrical tape

I'd add that ALL the wires that go through the metal shelf below the board should also be wrapped. Maybe they were at the factory. They were bare and exposed and chafed through to a short circuit on the 417 we have here.  

[johnnymag3 2,520]

I have a board if you are interested....50 shipped

 

[johnnymag3 2,520]

The board is a monitor....does not prevent anything from functioning..nice to have them work though

[johnnymag3 2,520]

Also.....those boards are live all of the time...with NO fuse between it and the key...   Something to ponder...maybe add one if you are replacing..

 

just my .02 cents...

 

John

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,043]

1 hour ago, johnnymag3 said:

Also.....those boards are live all of the time...with NO fuse between it and the key...   Something to ponder...maybe add one if you are replacing..

 

just my .02 cents...

 

John

But there is a fuse between the key and the battery. This is the circuit that allows you to test the circuit board lights with the key OFF.

Once upon a time the first board version superseded to the next version and this continued through the following versions if you followed the part numbers.

The board design changed quite a bit and recall SOI confirming the end result was the same.

If the 417 has an oil pump you will lose the oil light without the board.

The hour meter and voltmeter will still work with the board removed because they have their own power supply and ground.

The circuit board for the 520 is different.

 

[pfrederi 17,739]

I have the same board on my 418A  Tells me big news like I have my foot on the brake.  The only reason I left the board in is the oil pressure light you may want to rig up an individual idiot light for that function.  Caveat: a few years ago the oil pressure sending unit cracked and started spraying oil out...Never triggered the light only noticed it when it got on the exhaust and smoked...

[clueless 2,991]

I find it funny that the thing that's supposes to tell you what safety switch isn't working is the the first thing to quit working .

[peter lena 8,627]

 

@Cee245 agree with others to by pass that set up , also take advantage of the total exposure of your wiring set up , replace an reroute tight or chafing wires  use wire wrap to protect all wiring , NOTICE THE END OF YOUR SLOPPY PTO LEVER ? just to left side of ignition switch , cotter pin and single washer , move it to show gap , fill with washers and lubrication at every movement point , WHAT A GREAT OPPORTUNITY !  did that to my 3 horses lever is solid and smooth , only if you want to , pete

[peter lena 8,627]

@ebinmaine  every time i look at a wheel horse wiring set up , I  cringe at its faults ,  regularly use wire wrap  or cable wrap to contain my rewire work , also eliminate tight binding / chafing areas with bolt or screw on cable mounts . basically just go wire by wire with solid improvements . also use electrical lugs for multiple hook ups , also a very solid grounding spot gain . personally would not put up with a chronic wiring issue , too many other reliable set ups to use . like I  have said , "  you have to be fed up ,with a problem ,to make it go away " .  you are looking at what does not work . change it out , if you want to . just my experience , pete   

[Cee245 818]

3 hours ago, clueless said:

I find it funny that the thing that's supposes to tell you what safety switch isn't working is the the first thing to quit working .

I agree! That's why I'd like to make it "bare bones electrical "

 

Even if the oil pressure is low sometime down the road, realistically I'm going to assume something is wrong with the switch and I'd keep running it.  Might as well eliminate it with that thinking 

[Cee245 818]

3 hours ago, peter lena said:

 

@Cee245 agree with others to by pass that set up , also take advantage of the total exposure of your wiring set up , replace an reroute tight or chafing wires  use wire wrap to protect all wiring , NOTICE THE END OF YOUR SLOPPY PTO LEVER ? just to left side of ignition switch , cotter pin and single washer , move it to show gap , fill with washers and lubrication at every movement point , WHAT A GREAT OPPORTUNITY !  did that to my 3 horses lever is solid and smooth , only if you want to , pete

 

Thanks for the input... that's basically what I'm trying to do with this tractor. Fixing or improving one thing is leading to lots of other things that is pushing out the painting of the tins I was planning this winter. No problem though, I'd rather get it reliable before making it pretty. 

 

Tightening up the steering led to a broken steering block (thanks @Handy Don)!

But, I put a flange bushing in the top part of the steering shaft (almost done with that) to tighten everything up. 

 

I bought a cheap carb that is not very good so I ordered a Kt17 Carter carb rebuild kit. 

 

That's how it's been going, but I'm enjoying it because it's fun for me (usually)  and it's improving the machine 

[johnnymag3 2,520]

5 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

But there is a fuse between the key and the battery

I guess my point is....there is no fuse to protect the board, and they have also been known to kill batterys.

Just like having a fuse there... I added a low amp fuse to all of mine for safety.

 

 

I dont think the fuse to the Keyswitch will help that situation...????

[roadapples 6,983]

7 hours ago, clueless said:

I find it funny that the thing that's supposes to tell you what safety switch isn't working is the the first thing to quit working .

That's what I  like about mid 70's tractors. Bare bones. I always check oil and gas before I start it, and only 5 or 6  wires on the whole tractor...

[Cee245 818]

2 hours ago, roadapples said:

That's what I  like about mid 70's tractors. Bare bones. I always check oil and gas before I start it, and only 5 or 6  wires on the whole tractor...

@roadapplesthat's what I want to do.

 

What would the minimum be? I'd like to keep all lights and hour meter for maintenance.  What else is essential?

 

I have the schematic that @ebinmainereferenced earlier in this thread. It's not too bad to follow.  

 

I'd be interested in hooking up a spare tach I have as well. Other than that, I'd like to keep it minimal 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Cee245

[ebinmaine 67,496]

Here's a thread that shows a few wiring schematic diagrams for several models. 

 

 

 

You could follow a diagram for the B/C series then add circuits for tach or whatever else.