More C-125 / K301 questions with photos...

[Snoopy11 5,714]

It's too fast for a balance gear or rod. Broke out my Razer Adaro headphones. Sounds like intake valve, before exhaust valve opens. Might want to check the lash again...

 

.001 too big and that thing is going to be noisy as hell.

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

One more question, do the sounds go away when load is applied?

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Just for reference, tappet clearance cold should be .008" for intake and .017" for exhaust.

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said:

What's your valve lash set at?

 

Hain't checked it yet!

 

I was planning on pulling the carb and fuel pump this week and checking that, but I forgot to order the vc gasket!

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said:

One more question, do the sounds go away when load is applied?

 

Don

 

I actually couldn't tell very well from the seat, but I don't believe so.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Definitely lash needs to be evaluated. Sounds like it is loose... 

 

 

Don

[kpinnc 11,993]

The Charger's K321 made a bigger tick than yours, and that was after removing the grenade gears, adjusting the valves, and decarbon cleaning the head. 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

56 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

bigger tick

 

 You've not found the source yet?

 

[kpinnc 11,993]

Just now, Jeff-C175 said:

You've not found the source yet?

 

 

Gotta be in the valves. Checked everything as much as possible without removing rhe valves, but they seem fine, as do the seats.

 

One thing we did notice today was that the tick gets weaker as the engine warms up, and comes back strong at a cold start.

 

Just don't make sense!

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

37 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

the tick gets weaker as the engine warms up, and comes back strong at a cold start

 

I'm gonna pay more attention to this tomorrow on a cold start and see.

 

There's nothing really at idle, and I can't really tell if ir's still there at high speed because of the other noises masking it.  It's most apparent when running the speed up as in the video.

 

But... the good news is that the rattly clutch mechanism is almost silent!

 

I had an idea to add another smaller, much weaker spring to that to quiet it even more.  When the belt is engaged, the handle is basically hanging free to rattle around.  A spring at the location shown in blue might stop that rattle altogether.  Have to look at that a bit more after I get the other stuff done.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:18 PM, Jeff-C175 said:

Still to do...

 

1. Shim steering shaft to get rid of excess free play. DONE, check.

 

There was 0.050 of shims installed.  Looked original, Cotter pin still had virgin red paint on it.  Ended up with a total of 0.175 of shims, so roughly 1/8" added.  Have about 0.015 clearance now.  MUCH better!

 

2. Replace front wheel bearings... or at least shim them up if they aren't bad.  There's about 3/16" of axial free play.  I hope the spindles are OK!

 

One side is done.  Will get to other side tomorrow.  Bearings were pretty bad.  Spindles are OK, about 0.010 wear.  Not terrible.  DONE, check.

 

 

Quote

3. Reinstall fender pan, seat, foot rests, side panels and console panels.  DONE, check.

 

4. Move rear axle plow mount from the 175 to the 125 and install plow.   DONE, check.

 

Not making this a priority until I get the 'big tick' project sorted out.  If there's an issue with the engine I don't think I want to be plowing with it just yet.

 

 

5. Looks like I need to add new tie rods to the list!  Quite a bit of play, and as is typical it seems, there's a pretty fair amount of toe out on this machine.  I can't help but wonder if that was intentional from the factory for some reason?

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:18 PM, Jeff-C175 said:

Those with very keen visual senses might notice an error that I made!  Need to fix that.  Works fine... if you're standing on your head!  This is a test!

 

 

Nobody wants to play?

 

It's not real obvious unless you've installed new ammeters, or have the wiring color code committed to memory.

 

I got the wires on bass ackwards!  RED s/b on the LEFT, and GREEN s/b on the RIGHT!

 

Says "DISCHARGE" when it's actually CHARGING!

 

I might just leave it like that... because I don't want to cut the tape and have to retape it again.

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

20 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

It's not real obvious unless you've installed new ammeters, or have the wiring color code committed to memory.

 

I got the wires on bass ackwards!  RED s/b on the LEFT, and GREEN s/b on the RIGHT!

 

Says "DISCHARGE" when it's actually CHARGING!

 

I might just leave it like that... because I don't want to cut the tape and have to retape it again.

 

 

No way I could have even guessed...  

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

Still trying to figure out this rattle.  I know, I know, bite the bullet and pull the motor and get shut of them balance gears... yeah, I get it... but I don't really want to open 'er up if I haain't gotta!  

 

So, here's two more short videos.  Showing the noise getting louder when I engage the clutch, and with the clutch engaged, getting louder when I move the machine.

 

Do these still sound like a valve tick @Snoopy11 ?  I don't think so myself.  I know what tickin' valves sound like and I don't think this is that.

 

Link should take you to shared album of short videos:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xbZKgaFH55ohbzKn9

 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

By the way...  it is absolutely amazing to me how much difference moving the governor spring up one hole on the governor arm can make!

 

Previously, it was in the 3rd hole from the bottom and when I engaged the clutch it would bog down to about half the speed, needing to manually bump up the throttle.  When dis-engaging the drive belt it would of course speed WAY up.

 

Moved it up to the 4th hole from the bottom... PERFECT!  Same speed all the time.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Very hard to tell in the videos... lot's of white noise from the engine itself. 

 

The sound seems to change tune (get's a little more aggressive sounding) when load is applied... telling me that it may indeed be balance gears... again, just very hard to tell.

 

The sound that I am hearing now seems less fluttery. In other words, now it sounds more like an internal component... whereas before, it sounded like valve flutter...

 

Have you changed the oil lately... if so... any metal flakes noticeable?

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

11 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Have you changed the oil lately... if so... any metal flakes noticeable?

 

Do you even have to ask the first question?     of COURSE I did!  First thing!

 

Nothing out of the ordinary in the drain oil.  Let it settle for a good while and ran the magnet through it.  I won't say ZERO, but the next step up from zero, which is a few specks of ferrous dust.

 

Maybe should have filtered it though, looking for Al U. Minium ?

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Do you even have to ask the first question?     of COURSE I did!  First thing!

Well, it might have been the second thing... or the third... 

 

Definitely does not sound like rod knock. 

 

Does not really sound like valves anymore...

 

Only other thing it could be... (you know what, I won't say it out loud...)... 

 

Does it sound better/worse as it runs? 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

9 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Al U. Minium

 

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

It is so hard to tell... but I think it sounds similar to the engine in the second video here Jeff? Sounds a little similar to me... but again, very hard to tell in videos...

 

 

It seems like it is a common sound in these engines... not really detrimental... as it would appear... 

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said:

sounds similar

 

Listening now... I can tell you one thing, he's got the idle set way too low in the first video.  Not much oil gettin' slung around in it's belly at that speed!

 

After listening to the second... yeah, I agree, it does sound like that.

 

I'll retard the timing a bit tomorrow and see what affect that might have.  (Of course I'll baseline it first!)

 

Then, I'm gonna run it until it blows up.  And put my B&S 16 HP Twin in it's place.  I don't really need that pressure washer anymore!

 

[kpinnc 11,993]

5 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

By the way...  it is absolutely amazing to me how much difference moving the governor spring up one hole on the governor arm can make!

 

Yes sir you are correct! Huge difference in govenor response!

 

This, and adding the spring between governor arm and throttle made a massive difference in the Charger's performance. 

 

Plain and simple- these machines have wear in the linkages aside from internal wear. You can get a good runner, but sometimes they need a little extra to keep going!

Edited December 9, 2021 by kpinnc

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

20 hours ago, kpinnc said:

adding the spring between governor arm and throttle

 

I added a small spring from the throttle over to a small hole that was in the top of one of the tins.  I think I posted a pic of it in one of my threads, maybe this one?  (yes, page 2)

 

 

I think it achieves the same net effect, keeping the throttle from 'bouncing' around due to play in the linkage and the throttle shaft.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

23 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I'll retard the timing a bit tomorrow and see what affect that might have.  (Of course I'll baseline it first!)

 

Points were already at 0.018 .  Set them to 16 didn't seem right, kinda 'sluggish'... but noise was the same.

 

Set them to 20, noise the same.  At 0.020, the timing mark was exactly 'on'.

 

Advanced to 0.022 ... no difference.

 

Set them back to 0.020

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I was about to... post...

 

 

But you beat me to it Jeff... 

 

Don