Steering Wheel roll pin

[RandyL 53]

What do I need to know to remove my steering wheel from my '74 C-120?  Parts diagram shows a long roll pin, which I do see. Seems I read a post here some time past about life is all fun and games, until you want the roll pin out of the steering wheel. Searching posts has not shed any light. Any thought would be appreciated before I beat, cut, and drill. Thanks!

[Handy Don 12,235]

there are a number of threads with useful info. Try "roll pin steering" in the search bar and choose the "all of my search term words" option.

Generally:

- VERY SOLIDLY support the steering shaft to eliminate bounce and to prevent damaging the steering gear (I bracketed the shaft to a sturdy wall)

- use the correct sized roll pin punch, NOT a straight punch which flares the end of the pin making it harder to remove!

- use penetrant that's been given time to work

- if it is easier, do as some members have and remove the entire wheel and shaft to bring it to a press

[RandyL 53]

Thanks for the search tips. I tried steering, steering wheel, wheel, roll pin, etc but no dice. I think I am applying it wrong and will try again the way you suggest. I figured there had to be some threads but did not find them.

 

I've had both PB Blaster and SeaFoam deep Creep on it for a week, they are my favorites, and I keep spraying at times. I'm certainly with you on the roll pin punch as well.

 

What I will do is brace the wheel / shaft to a solid wall as you suggest, very good idea. I have big presses available to me where I worked if things get ugly, hope to avoid all that. Thanks... ( will do more searching )

[Wheelhorse616 4]

Anyone know where the ground wire on a 1990 312-8 behind the starter solenoid connects to? Thanks

[daveoman1966 3,752]

Get yourself a ROLL PIN PUNCH SET...  1/8-5/16 or so for about $20 bux.  Each one has a 'nipple' on the business end which keep the roll pin from 'flaring out'  Once you've falred it out with just a standard punch, you'll likely have to drill it out.  These roll pins are HARD...so get a good bit and expect to do some work.  Get a cold 6-pack too.

 

[peter lena 8,634]

@RandyL agree with @Handy Don on that solid support issue with that roll pin . get some help and a solid wood 4x4 from wheel edge to a wall or wall corner , what you need are solid impacts , size to  size punch and a 3 lb hammer , the first dead stop impact will start the move. that has worked for me , pete  

[wallfish 17,011]

An alternative way to deal with stubborn steering wheel removal

If you're not actually changing the steering wheel but just need to remove it from the tractor to let's say separate it from the hood stand. Cut the shaft below the hood stand, remove the 3/4" lock collar (Cut that off too if necessary) and it's off in about 2 minutes. Weld the shaft back together when you're ready, DONE. Or you can use a 3/4" shaft coupler and weld or pin that to the shaft as it will perfectly line up the cut shaft.

 

Or, if the steering wheel is junk, cut the shaft as before and grind the weld off of the steering gear at the bottom of the shaft. Replace it with a new 3/4 shaft and weld the gear back on. You can grind off the gear and remove the lock collar to slide the entire shaft out without cutting it in half. Lots of different ways to deal with it but it's totally dependent upon available tools and your tolerance for aggravation

 

Hammering soaking beating and repeating can be a huge PITA with plenty of cuss words. Mother nature can weld those roll pins in pretty good so as mentioned, a correct size pin punch should get it out. But not always because they can mushroom the pin too.  For me, cutting the shaft happens fairly quick after maybe 5-10 minutes of trying to remove the steering wheel the conventional way and it doesn't happen easily.

 

 

 

[roadapples 6,983]

If you have an air chisel with the right size punch, they work great....

[RandyL 53]

Good stuff guys. Roll pin punch is no problem 7/32 seems to be the closest fit. I normally swing a 2# hammer, but may up it a bit. I will certainly brace it all solid and hope a very solid hit gets it attention. I have a good  air chisel as well. I suspect I could machine a chisel bit into proper roll pin punch to get it to move a bit if a hammer won't. I spent a good portion of life rebuilding front ends in the auto field. Hammers and air chisels were daily life for A-frame bushing, ball joints, king pins, and such. I hope this stays simple. Y'all have good ideas!

[ebinmaine 67,603]

11 hours ago, RandyL said:

. I hope this stays simple

Keep us posted on what works...

[peter lena 8,634]

@wallfish agree with that 3/4 " coupler . makes things much easier , scary that I  am seeing adaptive thinking going on . when dealing with any part of a horse , I  just expose everything I  can ,that's related  to the issue , then plan my improved repair / upgrade. my roller stool approach , has really helped my view of a problem area , what if  ....... I did this ? pete

[clueless 3,004]

If you have access to a hammer drill, not a impact drill, put the correct roll pin punch in it. Keep soaking it with pen oil and every so often hit the pin with the drill a few times. maybe 3 or 4 seconds two or three times a days, hit it with more pen oil every time. I've done two this way, one was a newer model and one was a  '73 model. The newer model took about a day, the older one over a week. The hammer drill, probably an air chisel also, puts short rapid blows directly on the pin as opposed to the big hammer where the whole shaft takes the blows, thus  having to brace it with 2x4 or something else.

 

[wallfish 17,011]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

@wallfish agree with that 3/4 " coupler . makes things much easier , scary that I  am seeing adaptive thinking going on . when dealing with any part of a horse , I  just expose everything I  can ,that's related  to the issue , then plan my improved repair / upgrade. my roller stool approach , has really helped my view of a problem area , what if  ....... I did this ? pete

 

The steering wheel shouldn't need to be removed again (hopefully) so I tack weld the coupler on but it can be pinned or screwed too as I realize not everyone has a welder. Doubtful those 2 set screws in the coupler would hold the shaft on their own without being keyed to the shaft somehow. There's a couple/few ways to do it like drilling holes in the shaft and threading them the same as the set screw holes and then use longer set screws.  Bottoming out the set screw in those holes should keep them locked in place. Pretty tough to shear a set screw.

Maybe Drill and thread holes in  the coupler to add 2 more set screws each end at 60 deg. 3 set screws should lock a steering shaft. Maybe even dimple a shallow hole into the shaft for the set screws? Grind a keyway into the shaft ? 

 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shaft-Couplers/Keyed-Splined-Hex-1-Piece-Solid-Couplers/3-4-Shaft-Coupler-1-1563-C.axd

[TonyBer 71]

Since this thread is already out there I thought I'd ask this question here...hope you don't mind?  I have a C160 and the steering wheel is flimsy as the sides bend as something structurally is broken.  I was able to buy a vintage wheel on this site.  Is the struggle to remove the wheel all based on removing the roll pin or do the wheels tend to be "stuck" on even after removing the roll pin.  I haven't started the job yet as I just ordered the proper size punch and going to start soaking the pin with PB Blast.  Sounds like I need to brace the steering column and then punch out the roll pin.  Once that is out, will the wheel just pull off?  Should I get a wheel puller?

[peter lena 8,634]

@wallfish agree with that 3/4 " coupler . makes things much easier , scary that I  am seeing adaptive thinking going on . when dealing with any part of a horse , I  just expose everything I  can ,that's related  to the issue , then plan my improved repair / upgrade. my roller stool approach , has really helped my view of a problem area , what if  ....... I did this ? pete

[peter lena 8,634]

@wallfish , when wanting to  enhance an allen head set screw , or even a bolt , drill a small hole start in existing shaft , and get a pointed set screw or make a pointed bolt to enhance that set , mild lock tite will , help , pete

[ebinmaine 67,603]

56 minutes ago, TonyBer said:

Since this thread is already out there I thought I'd ask this question here...hope you don't mind?  I have a C160 and the steering wheel is flimsy as the sides bend as something structurally is broken.  I was able to buy a vintage wheel on this site.  Is the struggle to remove the wheel all based on removing the roll pin or do the wheels tend to be "stuck" on even after removing the roll pin.  I haven't started the job yet as I just ordered the proper size punch and going to start soaking the pin with PB Blast.  Sounds like I need to brace the steering column and then punch out the roll pin.  Once that is out, will the wheel just pull off?  Should I get a wheel puller?

The wheel itself will likely be rusted to the shaft, yes. 

 

A traditional steering wheel puller won't help much because those normally need to be threaded into the wheel. 

A bearing puller might be more useful to you. 

 

But in your case the existing wheel is already garbage. 

You can get a sawzall with good fine metal blades and carefully cut the wheel right off. 

With all the plastic of the wheel gone you can go to a torch for heating up the area if you like. 

[RandyL 53]

I have a rotary hammer and hammer drill. I would never have thought about the hammer drill. I may see about that if I get out to the shop Monday. Less violent than my air chisel. I have a lot of ideas now. I will post what worked for me when I do get that pin out. Glad I asked for help, great ideas.

 

[ebinmaine 67,603]

7 hours ago, RandyL said:

Glad I asked for help, great ideas.

You'll find that whatever it is you need to get done, someone else has figured out 6 ways to do it. 

Keep asking questions...

 

Not just about tractors either. I've posed all kinds of questions and gotten excellent help. 

 

[RandyL 53]

OK... Here is my steering wheel update. Not sure I can keep it real short as it was a long project! To start with, thanks for all the ideas and advice. I used PB Blaster and a hammer drill with a 7/32 roll pin punch to soak and vibrate the roll pin for about 4 days. Today, I put that punch in a lathe and turned it to .400 so it would fit my air chisel. A moderate pull of the trigger and the pin was moving, a couple more blurps and the pin was out. No bracing etc, just the air chisel and me holding the wheel. I thought I was home free. As it was the battle had only started. The wheel won't come off. I took a sawsall and cut the rubber away so I could heat the coller. Even cherry red ( and ruining lower plastic sleeves ) it woudn't budge. Next I pull a puller on it and heated it again, no dice. Finally too sawsall and some time but cut a slice off the hub to expose the shaft. I then kept spaying PB Blaster and used a standard chisel bit in the air chisel and fin got it to budge...Gee whiz, that was a fast 3 hours this morning. Sanded and polished the shaft until I could easily press the new wheel on. I'm there...and love it! Its on as temp until body work, amybe next summer.

[Handy Don 12,235]

Well you gave it your all and were victorious in the end!

That shot of the hub looks like it'd been filled with water for YEARS.

Good work.

[RandyL 53]

Yes sir, Months ago it looked even worse before I started knocking rust off of it. Originally I thought that may that was a bolt in the center. I finally understood what I was looking at. It was a tough go. Usually I am pretty patient but it gave me no choice but to get ugly with it.  Thanks!

[Moparfanforever 851]

Geez , that wheel put up a fight !!

[RandyL 53]

I gotta say, it put up a good fight. I need to measure things and 3D print new sleeve between wheel and panel. That _should_ be easy.

 

[ebinmaine 67,603]

You have now passed one of two of the most difficult challenges for a classic Wheelhorse owner or restorer.  

The other is the rear axle hubs. 

 

Excellent work Sir. Ya done good.