Help needed

[LLegg 6]

Bought this wheel horse for a good price trying to figure out what model it is and what motor. Replaced ignition and magneto still no spark.the magnet is still strong.  

. Any help would be great.  
thanks 

[Handy Don 12,235]

Welcome to the forum and to WH ownership!

 

The best way to focus on the problem is to get the data on the engine. Find the data plate, get a good picture, and post it so we can see what you are working with.

It looks like previous owners have made some changes and painted over some decals, but a close up of the dash and the plate that has the model and serial number would be helpful!

[Achto 27,601]

Looks like a C-series tractor with a Briggs & Stratton engine. May be a C-111.

 

First question on the spark issue. Do you have the correct side of the coil facing the engine? This will make a difference.

2-Are you using a solid state coil instead of a points coil? It appears like you are, but I can't tell for sure.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Achto

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

Possibly a model 1-0450 or 1-0451

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by gwest_ca
Adding more service manuals

[LLegg 6]

I have located this 

[Achto 27,601]

'71 model 800

[Handy Don 12,235]

10 minutes ago, Achto said:

'71 model 800

@gwest_ca was on the money!

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

What's this switch do?

 

[LLegg 6]

He had it hooked to flashing lights 

[roadapples 6,983]

[Achto 27,601]

3 hours ago, LLegg said:

 

After a closer look at your coil, it looks like you are using a points type coil. 

 

If you don't have spark with the new coil then you may have points issues. There are two ways to handle a points issue on a Briggs.

 

1 - Pull the fly wheel off and clean or replace the points.

2 - This is my favorite remedy. Leave the fly wheel in place, cut the wire that currently goes to the points and install a solid state coil. Briggs part # 398811 or after market equivalent. Run a kill wire from the terminal on the new coil to your switch. No more points to deal with ever.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Achto

[wallfish 17,011]

Might want to connect this wire to ground and check again

[LLegg 6]

19 hours ago, Achto said:

 

After a closer look at your coil, it looks like you are using a points type coil. 

 

If you don't have spark with the new coil then you may have points issues. There are two ways to handle a points issue on a Briggs.

 

1 - Pull the fly wheel off and clean or replace the points.

2 - This is my favorite remedy. Leave the fly wheel in place, cut the wire that currently goes to the points and install a solid state coil. Briggs part # 398811 or after market equivalent. Run a kill wire from the terminal on the new coil to your switch. No more points to deal with ever.

I appreciate all the help. That was sold to me as a solid state coil. I am learning as I go.  It will turn over but still no spark so I will see what coil I actually need. Thank u. 

[Achto 27,601]

37 minutes ago, LLegg said:

That was sold to me as a solid state coil.

 

Here are some pictures to help ID a solid state coil for a Briggs.

 

First a coil that requires points. Note the opening on each side between the coil and the mount.

 

Next a solid state coil. Note how there is only an opening on one side of the coil to the mount. This closed space contains the pick up needed for spark.

 

Some solid state coils do not have an opening on either side.

 

The Briggs 398811 part number that I gave you for the coil should cover all Briggs engines from 7hp - 16hp

 

Here is a Taryl video to help you out as well. He is working on a cast iron block Briggs, I believe that yours is an aluminum block Briggs so you should not have to deal with the reverse polarity on the fly wheel.  It's kinda corny but good info.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Achto

[Achto 27,601]

Here is one source for a coil.

 

http://www.psep.biz/store/briggs_stratton_ignition_coils.htm

 

I have used many of their after market coils part #RM80-60-102 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Achto

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

2 hours ago, LLegg said:

solid state coil

 

Looks like it to me.

 

@wallfish pointed out that you need to connect that ground wire, did you do that?

 

How did you 'gap' the coil from the flywheel?

 

Just for clarity, I know how, I'm asking if the O.P. has done it correctly.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[bds1984 1,435]

3 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Looks like it to me.

 

@wallfish pointed out that you need to connect that ground wire, did you do that?

 

How did you 'gap' the coil from the flywheel?

 

 

Fold a piece of paper three layers thick and place it between the coil and magnet.  That should be close to 0.010".  Or use a feeler gauge set; there is often a brass strip that is used for gapping the coil and flywheel.  

[wallfish 17,011]

I typically use a business card to gap coils to the flywheels. Use the flywheel magnets to pinch it in there with the coil and lock it down. Spin the flywheel to remove it. So far so good and never had a problem but the overwhelming majority done were on little 2 stroke engines  

 

Thought Dan @Achto was just a BS artist but now it's clear he's a BS guru!

Excellent info and advise provided on those BS coils Dan!

[LLegg 6]

On 11/15/2021 at 1:29 PM, Achto said:

 

After a closer look at your coil, it looks like you are using a points type coil. 

 

If you don't have spark with the new coil then you may have points issues. There are two ways to handle a points issue on a Briggs.

On 11/16/2021 at 9:30 AM, Achto said:

 

Here are some pictures to help ID a solid state coil for a Briggs.

 

First a coil that requires points. Note the opening on each side between the coil and the mount.

 

Next a solid state coil. Note how there is only an opening on one side of the coil to the mount. This closed space contains the pick up needed for spark.

 

Some solid state coils do not have an opening on either side.

 

The Briggs 398811 part number that I gave you for the coil should cover all Briggs engines from 7hp - 16hp

 

Here is a Taryl video to help you out as well. He is working on a cast iron block Briggs, I believe that yours is an aluminum block Briggs so you should not have to deal with the reverse polarity on the fly wheel.  It's kinda corny but good info.

 

 

 

 

1 - Pull the fly wheel off and clean or replace the points.

2 - This is my favorite remedy. Leave the fly wheel in place, cut the wire that currently goes to the points and install a solid state coil. Briggs part # 398811 or after market equivalent. Run a kill wire from the terminal on the new coil to your switch. No more points to deal with ever.

 

[LLegg 6]

This is what I currently have.  It should have spark if the only thing that is hooked up is the spark plug correct it has two wires coming off of this. The video was great but where do the two wires go.  

Edited November 18, 2021 by LLegg

[Achto 27,601]

@LLegg Have you had any luck or findings on your project?

[Achto 27,601]

3 minutes ago, LLegg said:

The video was great but where do the two wires go.

 

One should go to the mounting screw for a ground. The other I believe will be your kill wire. Ground to shut off the engine

Edited November 18, 2021 by Achto

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

Ground one to make it work.  The other goes to a magneto ground switch to shut it OFF.

Are the wires identified so one knows which is which? 

[LLegg 6]

I’m gonna try that now.  Thank you everyone for the help. When I got this the ignition had a short and it also messed up the magneto.  So I replaced the ignition switch with the same but like a fool I tossed the original magneto. So I am trying to get it back running again. I’ll keep everyone posted. 
 

[Achto 27,601]

1 hour ago, LLegg said:

When I got this the ignition had a short and it also messed up the magneto.

 

Check your wiring and make sure that "+" battery voltage is not going to your coil. This will wreck the coil.

 

I also blew up your picture hoping to get a better look at you coil. I notice that there is an opening on each side between the coil and the mounting ears. The left side in the pic is very evident. The right side marked by the arrow seems to have the same opening. Still hard to tell with the belt in the way.

Your coil looks more like this coil. Which is a coil designed to be used with points and condenser. Not solid state.

 

This coil would be a solid state coil. After some research it looks like both of the wires on this coil are kill wires. @gwest_ca

Edited November 18, 2021 by Achto