Trans Pulley frozen

[ANTPER 207]

Stopped to empty my discharge bags in the rear. All was good. Hopped back on to put in gear and no movement but heard a belt slipping. The trans pulley isnt spinning in any gear. I Jostle the shifter around and up and down on clutch and finally got forward motion but can still hear the belt slipping on the pulley. I noticed it would only idle with clutch pedal in. Let of the clutch out in neutral stalls the engine due to pulley not spinning freely. When I do end up getting pulley to free up some how I can hear a slight clicky metallic sound.  Its a 310-08 built in the 90s area. First issue since purchased besides belts and periodic maintenance items. Appreciate any help.

[stevasaurus 22,764]

I would say, do not try to drive anymore.  Jack up rear end, pull the guard and drive belt and do the tests by turning by hand the rear wheel in neutral, and the input pulley in neutral and in gears.  See what you get.  I'm thinking you might have to open her up and fix what is wrong.  Let us know.  

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Jack up the rear end.  With the trans in neutral, turn the left wheel in any direction.  The other wheel should turn in the opposite direction.

   Then, put the horse in any gear.  Turn the input shaft in a counter-clock wise direction and see if the brake drum turns...also see if both tires will turn.  (you can hold one of the tires while doing this...the other tire should turn.  Let us know what you see.  

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

13 hours ago, ANTPER said:

Stopped to empty my discharge bags in the rear. All was good. Hopped back on to put in gear and no movement but heard a belt slipping. The trans pulley isnt spinning in any gear. I Jostle the shifter around and up and down on clutch and finally got forward motion but can still hear the belt slipping on the pulley. I noticed it would only idle with clutch pedal in. Let of the clutch out in neutral stalls the engine due to pulley not spinning freely. When I do end up getting pulley to free up some how I can hear a slight clicky metallic sound.  Its a 310-08 built in the 90s area. First issue since purchased besides belts and periodic maintenance items. Appreciate any help.

Something locked the trans up, can you still push it in neutral?

Edited November 14, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[Handy Don 12,235]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Jack up the rear end.  With the trans in neutral, turn the left wheel in any direction.  The other wheel should turn in the opposite direction.

   Then, put the horse in any gear.  Turn the input shaft in a counter-clock wise direction and see if the brake drum turns...also see if both tires will turn.  (you can hold one of the tires while doing this...the other tire should turn.  Let us know what you see.  

[ANTPER 207]

22 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Jack up the rear end.  With the trans in neutral, turn the left wheel in any direction.  The other wheel should turn in the opposite direction.

   Then, put the horse in any gear.  Turn the input shaft in a counter-clock wise direction and see if the brake drum turns...also see if both tires will turn.  (you can hold one of the tires while doing this...the other tire should turn.  Let us know what you see.  

 

[ANTPER 207]

Well my trans issues is a result of my negligence. I looked at the oil dip stick and very little and like sludge gear oil. It must have bound up with the heat. Now I can drive around and pulley does turn but you can hear a slight knocking noise. Put in reverse and you get a whole lot more noticeable noise. I did the neutral test and wheel did spin in opposite direction. I most likely have bearing damage. If I continue to use it and comes apart I may do far more internal damage. Safe to say I have to remove trans and give it a look inside?

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Use this link to see videos that will help you with your transmission.  Also, below that is the manual...you want Section V.

 

 

[peter lena 8,634]

@ANTPER what does the lubricant look like ? did you ever look at it?, my initial choice would be to drain it out , front end lifted off the ground 15- 20 inches , a chain lift and strap at front axel is safety . would fill it ,about 2 qts  of fuel oil or kerosene .next step  jack stands under rear end , so any pulley action would be free moving , just having it idle at that , would start flushing / freeing action . note what trans fluid looks like during pulley action . worth a try , before removing that trans . just something i  have done , pete

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Pete, he said not much oil and what is there is sludge like.  He also has other issues, he needs to open it, clean it out and see what is wrong.    

   As most members know, I am not a fan of flushing out Wheel Horse manual transmissions.  Why??  Because loosening what you have in there can cause more damage then good (dirty bearings).  Flushing does do one thing, it can make opening and cleaning out your trans a nicer job.  If you just bought a horse and you find sludge, the only way to know what you have, is to open it up.  Then you know you have another 50 years of use.  

   Also, in this case...if you put 2 qts of diesel in the trans and drive it around...your seals are most likely dry and while they may not leak 90wt they could leak the thinner diesel all over your yard.  You will be able to see where you drove all summer.  Pretty much, it is a waste of 2 qts of diesel.

   Now, if you take my 702, which I rebuilt the transmission with all new bearings and seals a few years ago, and I drained the oil...depending how it looked...I might just put in new oil.  The sign of any moisture, which would be from condensation, a diesel flush might be an option.  

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

the only way to know what you have, is to open it up.  Then you know you have another 50 years of use.  

Exactly what I did with HellHorse. 

 

I didn't even think to put anything in it like diesel... I just opened it up and cleaned everything by hand. Lot's of shop rags... break cleaner... and elbow-grease... 

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

16 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

If you just bought a horse and you find sludge, the only way to know what you have, is to open it up.  Then you know you have another 50 years of use.  

I had to open all my trannys, some had clean oil others not. I always found sludge and metal flakes. From my experience, flushing your tranny doesn't get rid of those metal flakes. 

On 11/14/2021 at 9:56 PM, ANTPER said:

I most likely have bearing damage. If I continue to use it and comes apart I may do far more internal damage. Safe to say I have to remove trans and give it a look inside?

please, just take apart the tranny and see what wrong, May look like a big job, but once in, It ain't to bad. they are a pleasure to work on.

 

Steve has some nice videos explaining a lot. Helped me a lot on my 3 trannys.

 

 

[953 nut 55,308]

On 11/14/2021 at 3:56 PM, ANTPER said:

Now I can drive around and pulley does turn but you can hear a slight knocking noise. Put in reverse and you get a whole lot more noticeable noise.

Prior to going inside the transmission it may be worthwhile to put the rear axles on jack stands, remove the rear wheels and see what the transmission sounds like without a load on it. There could be an axle keyway or drive pulley keyway that is compromised, if so the clicking may go away without a load. Also, while on jack stands you can check the rear bearings, there should be no movement front/back or up/down.

[ANTPER 207]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:39 PM, peter lena said:

@ANTPER what does the lubricant look like ? did you ever look at it?, my initial choice would be to drain it out , front end lifted off the ground 15- 20 inches , a chain lift and strap at front axel is safety . would fill it ,about 2 qts  of fuel oil or kerosene .next step  jack stands under rear end , so any pulley action would be free moving , just having it idle at that , would start flushing / freeing action . note what trans fluid looks like during pulley action . worth a try , before removing that trans . just something i  have done , pete

 

[ANTPER 207]

The sludge is a goldish. No I'm afraid I havent looked the level in years. Never saw and oil on the floor so never felt the immediate need to check and look at me now. Forgive me if I dont respond back in days as weekends are the only time I can on site and read. But I do appreciate everyones effort and knowledge. Everyone seems very helpful and generous with their time to help. The metallic sound I'm hearing is telling something in trans is coming apart. I will try this and the other recommendations before I pull trans. Thankyou!

Now days later I spotted oil under the trans area on the floor. Didnt have time to look but hoping just a seal. This explains lack of oil that caused the lock up.

Edited November 20, 2021 by ANTPER