front mounted air-compressor

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

Thanks to @ebinmaine I am going to make a separate topic on the fabrication of my Front-mounted air compressor, that will be driven by the  PTO.

We do have a huge compressor in the shop, but we often have had the need for compressed air on the propriety. And often this is out of reach with our big shop compressor. Like our concrete air hammer. 

So the idea came up to simply mount one on the front of a Wheel Horse, expanding it's utility-range.   

 

I found this big 1983 two cylinder compressor. All cast-iron and big enough to have a high CFM for running the concrete hammer. 

 

Coming in at 25kg or 55lbs, it weighs more then our little compressor(with thank and hoses included).

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

The main questions that I have to find an answer on are: 

 

1.   compressor speed:  I measured the pto pulley on my raider 10 and it is  4.5 inches(inside) and the pulley on the compressor is 12 inches.

             After some calculations I determined that at full engine speed (3.600RPM) the compressor will be doing 1.350 RPM. Is this to high or to slow? 

 

2.   buffer tank: I will be needing a buffer tank, how big should I go? And wouldn't it be getting a bit heavy on the front of the tractor? Maybe use support wheels?

 

3.   compressor shut-off: This is a hard one, I know @Pullstart has a compressor with a mechanical shut off, but couldn't find that post.

If I had a Horse with a electrical PTO, things would be a lot easier.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[ebinmaine 67,330]

AWESOME. 

 

Thanks for calling me in. 

 

Is the bracket going to be tach-a-matic mounted or bolted directly to the frame?

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

AWESOME. 

 

Thanks for calling me in. 

 

Is the bracket going to be tach-a-matic mounted or bolted directly to the frame?

 

 

Happy to bring you on board!  I know you had this idea for quite a while as well.

Planned for attach-a-matic for the easy of mounting and removing, but I am afraid it's going to be to much weight. 

Even when I also will be  using the mowingdeck supports.

[ebinmaine 67,330]

3 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

   After some calculations I determined that at full engine speed (3.600RPM) the compressor will be doing 1.350 RPM. Is this to high or to slow?

 

That's going to be an important spec to get accurate. 

I believe the tractor engine NEEDS to be at full throttle to power that absolute beast of a compressor. 

 

If the compressor is too slow obviously you wouldn't get desired full capacity. 

If it's too fast that's certainly a longevity issue. 

 

Can you find correct usable compressor specifications online?

 

[ebinmaine 67,330]

1 minute ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Happy to bring you on board!  I know you had this idea for quite a while as well.

Planned for attach-a-matic for the easy of mounting and removing, but I am afraid it's going to be to much weight. 

Even when I also will be  using the mowingdeck supports.

 

I don't think it'll be too much weight. 

 

What other implements are front end mounted and what do they weigh?

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,330]

I'd like to suggest TWO regulators. 

One behind the other and each at a slightly lower pressure cutoff. Safety measure.  

 

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

I already prepared the compressor for the fabrication.

 

Changed the oil, and how freaking beefy this compressor is! 

crankshaft has a diameter of 1.7 inches !!!!

 

A hitch spacer for references

 

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Can you find correct usable compressor specifications online?

 

I can't find a thing on the compressor, don't know the cfm or displacement. Don't know the original electric engine that drove this. Bought is cheap online, but when I arrived it was a bit bigger then I expected. Ans sure will need the power of that Kohler M12.

 

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

What other implements are front end mounted and what do they weigh?

 

 

 I guess the 60"front mount deck is close (but has supporting wheels) or the  generator? no idea how much it weighs. 

[R Scheer 502]

I think I'd be looking at seeing if an electric clutch could be mounted to the front of the compressor.  That way you could use a standard pressure switch to engage the compressor as required.  Maybe put a dash mounted toggle switch in series.

 

Speed you'd have to find something on the web, when I was researching mine most electric compressors were specced at 900-1100 rpm.  Mine was rated up to 3000rpm, but it was for a truck air brake system.

 

I would also put in appropriate sized blowoff valves.  16 hp and the size of that compressor things could get interesting real fast.  

 

Just thoughts.

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

23 minutes ago, R Scheer said:

I think I'd be looking at seeing if an electric clutch could be mounted to the front of the compressor.  That way you could use a standard pressure switch to engage the compressor as required.  Maybe put a dash mounted toggle switch in series.

 

I would also put in appropriate sized blowoff valves.  16 hp and the size of that compressor things could get interesting real fast.  

Thanks for your input! 

Maybe a belt tensioner that is electrical operated? 

 

Planning to use it on the raider with a 12hp, but if that is not enough my c-175 has a K-17.  I don't have a PTO on my c161.

[R Scheer 502]

12 hp should be plenty, going from memory (dangerous), 1 hp is good for 3 to 4 cfm.

 

The 55 lbs should be no issue for the attachmatic.  I've used a front trailer hitch receiver to move my boat before, I'm not doing that again due to the stress on the steering but the attachmatic had no issues.  Tongue weight, I don't know, but I can't lift it.

 

The only issue I see with the attachmatic would be holding the compressor up while engaging the attachmatic.  I would be more inclined to use a trailer hitch receiver.  I've got a "wheelhorse temporary front receiver" look it up on internet.  It mounts to the attachmatic. 

 

Electric belt tensioner may be possible, but it would need to be fast acting, some sort of solenoid maybe? 

 

Just thoughts

Edited November 19, 2021 by R Scheer
Corrected rule of thumb values.

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

After some research this compressor may be used on a semi for the air system. 

Therefore being able to make  up to 260 PSI! 

 

here on a caterpillar: 

[wallfish 16,988]

Couple more suggestions for the cut off

Electric PTO pulley utilizing a jack shaft?

Air cylinder for belt tensioner with a regulated pressure?

Or how about a pressure relief valve or two or 3 on the tank? The compressor can run continuously but any extra pressure is exhausted out the relief valve. Probably not bad idea to have a relief valve on the tank no matter which way you go

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

40 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Couple more suggestions for the cut off

Electric PTO pulley utilizing a jack shaft?

Air cylinder for belt tensioner with a regulated pressure?

Or how about a pressure relief valve or two or 3 on the tank? The compressor can run continuously but any extra pressure is exhausted out the relief valve. Probably not bad idea to have a relief valve on the tank no matter which way you go

Thanks! 

Using an air cylinder that keeps pressure on the belt but when a certain pressure is reached it engages and loosens the belt. interesting 

Got me thinking. If I use relief valve. Does the compressor will need to be shut off? since the engine keeps running. It's not like an electric motor. that shuts down when pressure is not needed. 

Thanks for your input. 

 

After some more looking around on the internet, I think how the pulleys are now, running the engine around 3200 RPM would be the sweetspot. 

[wallfish 16,988]

With a pressure relief valve, the compressor can just keep going. The trade off is the compressor life as it will need to operate much longer. But from what you're explaining it won't be used all the time anyway.

You can find adjustable relief valves to "dial it in" . Installing a relief valve is a good idea no matter which way you go as a safety feature. 260 PSI in a tank is a bomb if it explodes.

[cafoose 3,354]

What about a snow thrower pulley system like @Ed Kennell did for mad max 

 

 

[R Scheer 502]

If it's a truck air brake compressor your life became simpler.  They're designed to be continuously spinning and usually have an internal bypass.  Once the pump gets up to pressure, it opens a valve between the cylinders, effectively freewheeling.  This means just engage your manual pto, and let it run.

 

The downside is that they may use the trucks cooling system to remove the heat, not a big deal, as a 12v solar pump, an old heater core, and 12v fan, and some type of expansion tank you can make your own cooling system.

 

The other downside is they may use the engine oil supply for lubrication.  Some, like mine, are self lubricated so its not an issue.  You'll have to check yours.  Sorry on re-reading I saw that you changed the oil, so it's likely self lubricated.

 

You'll have to make up something for an air filter.  I used a 3/8 flange pipe fitting and a 3/8 air compressor filter from th jungle site.  You'll probably need something bigger.

 

Definitely add blow off valves to the system for safety.  Search air tank explosions for pictures.

 

This info is based on my compressor, and what I've seen on the internet.  Yours may be different.

 

Bendix has good info on their air brake compressors, you may want to look through their site.

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by R Scheer
Re-read post

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Looks like a supercharger there... @Maxwell-8...! 

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

11 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Looks like a supercharger there... @Maxwell-8...! 

 

Don

Only it will robe more power then it creates haha

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I wonder if @Jeff-C175 has any ideas for you on this... in the past he has made some helpful comments / ideas on projects like this?

 

Not trying to throw you under the bus, aye Jeff... just seeing if you have any thoughts! 

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

1 hour ago, R Scheer said:

If it's a truck air brake compressor your life became simpler.  They're designed to be continuously spinning and usually have an internal bypass.  Once the pump gets up to pressure, it opens a valve between the cylinders, effectively freewheeling.  This means just engage your manual pto, and let it run.

 

The downside is that they may use the trucks cooling system to remove the heat, not a big deal, as a 12v solar pump, an old heater core, and 12v fan, and some type of expansion tank you can make your own cooling system.

Heat is indeed a concern when leaving it continuously going. It does have an alloy head with cooling fins. and someone added blades to the pulley to try and cool it down.

 

And I guess that internal bypass will lay quite a bit higher then the goaled 120PSI most compressors make. and testing if it has one ahj.... The head does seem to have a chamber above the cylinders. maybe part of the internal bypass.

 

EDIT: after some more research If it has a internal unloaded valve it would be right on the money (120PSI). going to inspect if it has one.  

Edited November 13, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[Snoopy11 5,714]

So... @Maxwell-8... are you going to run an air pressure relief valve... like this?

 

Or this?

 

 

Hopefully these are helpful questions...

 

Don

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

1 minute ago, Snoopy11 said:

Never seen those, but they look a better option as they reset them selfs, Only the exit hole might be quite small.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Just now, Maxwell-8 said:

Never seen those, but they look a better option as they reset them selfs, Only the exit hole might be quite small.

Yes, supposedly the springs are settings for the pressure... so you put different springs in for different pressure settings... 

 

I haven't ever used them, but a welding buddy of mine told me about them... 

 

Don