No spark on K181

[wallfish 17,015]

That should quickly eliminate any guessing.

If you don't get spark that way then it's time to address what's going on with the points and or the coil.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,050]

Moved the battery so the black wires don't cross each other.

[Handy Don 12,237]

2 hours ago, Crmaverick said:

Thanks I’ll give this a shot tomorrow and we’ll see how it goes. 

 

You just got a master lesson in how to hot-wire a tractor!

Thanks, @wallfish 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 67,672]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

 

You just got a master lesson in how to hot-wire a tractor!

Thanks, @wallfish 

Actual WRITTEN proof that Mr  @wallfish IS good for something.  

[wallfish 17,015]

11 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Actual WRITTEN proof that Mr  @wallfish IS good for something.  

I'll have to show this to my wife! She don't believe that

Another tid bit is if you rotate the engine to make sure the points are closed you can check spark without touching the starter terminal and or cranking the engine over. Just connect wires as before and click open the points with a screwdriver and let them close. Basically simulating the push rod doing it when the engine is cranking over. Be sure not to ground out the screwdriver while doing it. A small dental pick works great. You should see a nice blue spark jump the plug gap each time you snap open the points

 

*** Don't leave power to the coil for long periods of time if the engine isn't running. That can burn out the coil

Edited November 13, 2021 by wallfish

[953 nut 55,325]

20 minutes ago, wallfish said:

I'll have to show this to my wife! She don't believe that

            Somehow I doubt that a testimonial from a big bear from Maine will convince her!               

[wallfish 17,015]

2 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

            Somehow I doubt that a testimonial from a big bear from Maine will convince her!               

That makes 2 of us. Maybe I could plagiarize  EB's work and say it's from a doctor!

[ebinmaine 67,672]

11 hours ago, wallfish said:

I'll have to show this to my wife! She don't believe that

 

Wont get you far but feel free to do so.....

[ebinmaine 67,672]

11 hours ago, wallfish said:

That makes 2 of us. Maybe I could plagiarize  EB's work and say it's from a doctor!

Dr Bear. Yes. That's me.  

[Crmaverick 91]

On 11/12/2021 at 3:34 PM, wallfish said:

Yes after that edit.

Both jumper cable leads to the battery

The other black ground jumper cable lead to the engine block

That leaves only one positive jaw on the jumper cable. Connect the + side of the coil to that positive jaw and check for 12v at the coil

Use THAT SAME POSITIVE JAW WITH THE WIRE STILL ON IT to touch the terminal on the SG to check for spark when the engine turns over

NOT THE BLACK GROUND jaw as suggested above.

 

I tested this out this morning. I ran a new wire to the coil + terminal and confirmed I was getting 12 Volts to it. I clamped it with 12 volts and touched the top Starter Gen post and nothing happened.

 

I also hooked the coil wire back up to the ignition switch and tried that. I confirmed the ignition switch is good, one click of the key puts 12 volts to the coil + terminal. Second click to turn the generator over puts 12 volts to the top generator post (and also the bottom post). When doing this the generator doesn’t turn over, it’s turned over randomly when trying this before though.

 

If the coil is bad would that still allow the generator to turn over and just make no spark?

 

Should I replace the coil or chase something else?

 

Thanks 
 

  

[pfrederi 17,741]

Coil would not impact the S/G spinning the engine.  Take a heavy automotive type jumper cable .  Blacks to Battery minus and somewhere in the engine block.  One red to battery Positive then touch the other red to the A terminal on the generator  (The one with heavy wire on it.  Does it spin???

[wallfish 17,015]

If that SG doesn't turn by hot wire then there's a problem somewhere with the SG. Intermittent go and no go suggests a dead spot or something wrong in the SG. It will need to be opened up and inspected for wear or damage or maybe cleaning something. Try putting the ground clamp directly on the bolt of the SG to ensure good ground and eliminate that possibilty.

No need for spark yet until the engine CAN be started.

But did you happen to try manipulating the points by hand as suggested to look for spark that way?

 

[Crmaverick 91]

23 minutes ago, wallfish said:

If that SG doesn't turn by hot wire then there's a problem somewhere with the SG. Intermittent go and no go suggests a dead spot or something wrong in the SG. It will need to be opened up and inspected for wear or damage or maybe cleaning something. Try putting the ground clamp directly on the bolt of the SG to ensure good ground and eliminate that possibilty.

No need for spark yet until the engine CAN be started.

But did you happen to try manipulating the points by hand as suggested to look for spark that way?

 

Well I got the SG working, I had to keep trying it started spinning much faster than it was before. I can put 12 volts to it on the post and get it to go now, I left power on it for a couple minutes to let it spin and free up. I would say the RPMs of the SG are double what it was before so I think it was stiff from sitting.

 

Still no spark so that leaves us with the coil or points? 
 

  

[ebinmaine 67,672]

1 minute ago, Crmaverick said:

Well I got the SG working, I had to keep trying it started spinning much faster than it was before. I can put 12 volts to it on the post and get it to go now, I left power on it for a couple minutes to let it spin and free up. I would say the RPMs of the SG are double what it was before so I think it was stiff from sitting.

 

Still no spark so that leaves us with the coil or points? 
 

  

Given the above information I'd say a cleaning out of the S/G is necessary.  

 

 

32 minutes ago, wallfish said:

try manipulating the points by hand as suggested to look for spark that way?

 

 

Also, have you bench tested the coil for excessive resistance?

 

[Handy Don 12,237]

7 minutes ago, Crmaverick said:

Well I got the SG working, I had to keep trying it started spinning much faster than it was before. I can put 12 volts to it on the post and get it to go now, I left power on it for a couple minutes to let it spin and free up. I would say the RPMs of the SG are double what it was before so I think it was stiff from sitting.

 

Still no spark so that leaves us with the coil or points? 
 

  

 

I doubt the S/G will "heal" itself from whatever was causing the problem. No machine I've ever used was able to do that.

Continuing to use it, despite its "running faster" is to ignore what might cause it to fail completely before long. Get in there and check it out or start a fund to purchase a replacement.

[pfrederi 17,741]

I would live with the S/G for now until you find out if eh engine will really run. 

 

Next I would hook a jumper wire from the battery + to the  + on the coil.  (Only need 16ga or heavier wire for this and do not leave it hooked up for long)  Using your heavy jumpers jumper crank the engine again and see if you have spark.

[Crmaverick 91]

19 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

I would live with the S/G for now until you find out if eh engine will really run. 

 

Next I would hook a jumper wire from the battery + to the  + on the coil.  (Only need 16ga or heavier wire for this and do not leave it hooked up for long)  Using your heavy jumpers jumper crank the engine again and see if you have spark.

I gave this a shot and still no spark. I’ll leave the S/G alone until I figure out the spark.

 

I haven’t tested the coil but I ordered a new one and a set of points. I’ll swap them both and see what happens. 

[Crmaverick 91]

Also here are some pictures of the 854.

[pfrederi 17,741]

While you are waiting test your coil.

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,672]

17 minutes ago, Crmaverick said:

I haven’t tested the coil but I ordered a new one and a set of points. I’ll swap them both and see what happens

No offense or negativity intended here. It's your tractor and your money. 

 

You should absolutely NOT replace either coil or points until you properly diagnose if one or both is defective. Particularly the coil. If there's a fault elsewhere in the system it could damage or destroy the new coil. 

 

[Crmaverick 91]

11 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

No offense or negativity intended here. It's your tractor and your money. 

 

You should absolutely NOT replace either coil or points until you properly diagnose if one or both is defective. Particularly the coil. If there's a fault elsewhere in the system it could damage or destroy the new coil. 

 

That’s good to know where else can I look for a fault? 
 

I have verified my engine block ground is good to. 

[wallfish 17,015]

Clean the points contacts. Was this ever done? Small file or 1200 grit sandpaper

 

[Crmaverick 91]

16 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Clean the points contacts. Was this ever done? Small file or 1200 grit sandpaper

 

I had some 100 grit I used to clean them off. They do look pretty worn down 

[ebinmaine 67,672]

44 minutes ago, Crmaverick said:

That’s good to know where else can I look for a fault? 
 

I have verified my engine block ground is good to. 

Disconnect and then Check the coil as pictured above with your ohmmeter. 

 

 

Try filing the points with much finer paper. 

[Handy Don 12,237]

21 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

much finer paper

100 is miles too coarse. It has now caused scratches that may further deteriorate your points by causing sparking once its running. I use 800 or 1000 or simply some high-fiber drawing paper scraps.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Handy Don