314-8 wont start /carburetor

[JDEVO 9]

My father-in-law gave me this 1994 314-8 (73400) wheel horse just before he died. He loved this tractor. Talked about it all the time. He owned a really really nice, brand new zero point toro. But it was extremely important to him that I get this tractor, what I thought was a old lawnmower. I didnt understand why and I also didnt understand what he was really giving me until now. Getting this red tractor home and doing a little research. I see now this is way more than a lawnmower. He gave me a small farm tractor. I love it.

 

The last time this tractor did any work was 18 months ago. It is my understanding he also put a new fuel pump on it just before he got sick. Then the tractor sat for over a year.

 

I have it now and I can not get it to start. I have removed all the old gas. The new fuel pump is pumping. Lots of spark when cranking the engine. I can feel suction when covering the sparkplug hole. but the sparkplug is dry and the top of the piston looks dry too. I have taken the carburetor off and I can see the intake valve moving up and down in the head. I am convinced I have a fuel issue and this is my cause for a no start.

 

My problem is. I can not find this carburetor on-line for sale and I was pretty ignorant about how carburetors worked but I have educated myself a bit but I still cant figure this no fuel thing out. I bought a carburetor that was very close to the one I have to see if I could at least get the tractor to start but it wouldnt start.

 

When I take the fuel bowel off the original carburetor it doesnt look right to me. I see a jet in the center hole and it looks like it is sitting in there crooked. If I push on it. It will move but it always returns to its angled position. Anyone have experience this carburetor? Can you tell me if this looks correct or is this carburetor missing something or is this jet broke. Honestly I am not sure exactly what I am looking at or how to remove the jet. I would appreciate any advise or thoughts. Thank you!

 

Pictures below show the original Walbro carburetor with the fuel bowel removed and I have also removed the float and the small brass plug that was attached to the float. It would plug the hole on the left in the first picture. The center hole has the off centered jet in it. It isnt gravity holding that jet down. regardless how you turn the carburetor it stays in that position. Does that look right? The fuel bowel does fill with fuel but for some reason no fuel is getting sucked into the motor.  

Edited November 2, 2021 by JDEVO

[953 nut 55,299]

This manual may be helpful to you.

 

[JDEVO 9]

Thank you for the service bulletin. The carburetor does have this new float pin already installed. I know you did know this since it didnt show up in any of the pictures. I appreciate the thought!

[Kenneth R Cluley 527]

Welcome to Red Square! Lots of good people with excellent advice and suggestions.

[Kenneth R Cluley 527]

My experience is that you are better off repairing old original than replacing with "chinese"

[jonw440 187]

Did you try a little starting fluid to verify its a fuel issue?

[JDEVO 9]

I did try some starting flued. I got some good size pops and that was it. 

[jonw440 187]

You should get more then a pop. It should start and run for at least 2 or 3 seconds.

 

[oldlineman 1,481]

Please don't use starting fluid in a gas engine, better using carb cleaner for this test. You need to do a good rebuild and cleaning of this carb., probably has dried corn alcohol in some internal passages.  Bob 

[oliver2-44 9,759]

4 hours ago, JDEVO said:

 

 

On the Walbro carburators that I have cleaned the jet was always to the side like that.  leave it there, don't try to remove it.

i would get a carb kit and carefully clean all the small passages.  The Walbro carb kit will contain some small welch plugs (metal disc)  Remove the ones on the carb and carefully clean those passages, then install the new welch plugs.  

 

[jonw440 187]

54 minutes ago, oldlineman said:

Please don't use starting fluid in a gas engine, better using carb cleaner for this test.  Bob 

Why? Thats what its made for. Besides its only to see if the ignition system is strong enough to fire it.

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by jonw440

[oldlineman 1,481]

starting fluid is designed for diesel engines that can withstand very high compression. Bob 

[8ntruck 7,016]

29 minutes ago, jonw440 said:

Why? Thats what its made for. Besides its only to see if the ignition system is strong enough to fire it.

 

Yes, that is what it is made for, but it is intended for use in larger (automotive) engines.  Starting fluid lites off violently enough that it can damage a small engine with excessive cylinder pressure.

[ebinmaine 67,595]

28 minutes ago, jonw440 said:

Why? Thats what its made for. Besides its only to see if the ignition system is strong enough to fire it.

 

 

8 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

Yes, that is what it is made for, but it is intended for use in larger (automotive) engines.  Starting fluid lites off violently enough that it can damage a small engine with excessive cylinder pressure.

 

 

I've been told multiple times that starting fluid is TOO GOOD AT CLEANING.

 

I'm not going to speculate on a percentage of actual values but it seems that a lot of people think most engine wear occurs at and just after startup.

 

Starting fluid cleans the bore really REALLY well and certainly is capable of accelerating wear on the engine.

[ebinmaine 67,595]

5 hours ago, JDEVO said:

Getting this red tractor home and doing a little research. I see now this is way more than a lawnmower. He gave me a small farm tractor. I love it.

 

 

I've only been messing around with these Wheel Horse tractors for coming up on 5 years now I guess....

Like you, I found this site while looking around for information on the interwebs and now I'm stuck here.

Well, more to the point, these guys are stuck with me.

 

Follow the advice above and you should be able to get that carb cleaned out nicely. I'll second the vote for cleaning the older one and not replacing with modern cheapos.

My experience is with the older Kohler carbs and I can't offer anything specific for the walbro you're working on. I will say that when you think it's just about clean enough, clean it again.

Don't get discouraged with it. You'll get it eventually. And you'll be happy that you learned what you did.

 

When I clean a carburetor I pretty much dedicate a bare minimum two to three cans of brake clean to it.

Yours looks pretty good on the outside. That would have been one can.

After disassembly I dedicate one entire can of brake clean to spray through the galleys in every possible direction and back again several different times.

 

 

Good luck. Keep us posted. Post lots of pictures because most of us are about 5 years old and we love lots of pictures.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

2 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Yes, that is what it is made for, but it is intended for use in larger (automotive) engines.  Starting fluid lites off violently enough that it can damage a small engine with excessive cylinder pressure.

Absolutely! I agree 100 percent here. I wouldn't use starting fluid even with my racing internals... which are a lot stronger than OEM...

 

You know... one think that I have done... is put gas in a spray bottle...  spray some in the carb... boom...

 

Worked better than carb cleaner... for me...

 

Don

[Howie 886]

[oliver2-44 9,759]

Back to getting your horse running.  As part of inspecting you carburetor check if the throttle shaft has a lot of side to side wear that would let air leak my the carb.  

[JDEVO 9]

I have new gaskets and air filter. The gaskets I have are for the carb attachment at the head to carb and air filter assembly to carb. I do not have a carb rebuild kit. When I was searching for this carburetor, I never ran across a rebuild kit. Concerns me if I will find one. Do you (Jim, my name is John) know a good place to look for these type of kits?   I was keeping my eye out last time for a carburetor kit because I was scared, I would ruin the gas bowel gasket by removing it. It didnt break it but after not being in the carb for 2 days it looks a bit wonkie. I dont have a lot of confidence it will seal back up. I have worked on cars and trucks all my life but I have never rebuilt a carburetor. I guess my luck has run out. Honestly, just glancing at the carburetor I am not sure what I could take off next to get into the inner workings of this thing. lol ....I will look for YouTube videos.

 

In the fifth picture I posted. Are those part numbers? 47 053 96 

 

All you guys rock, I really appreciate the help and I look forward meeting and riding my 314 in a parade with you all. I will keep the pictures coming.

 

I FOUND REPAIR KIT,,,,THANKS GUYS

Edited November 3, 2021 by JDEVO

[tunahead72 2,424]

5 hours ago, JDEVO said:

...  In the fifth picture I posted. Are those part numbers? 47 053 96 ...

 

I FOUND REPAIR KIT,,,,THANKS GUYS

 

Yes, that's your carb number.  Have you seen the Kohler carb reference manual posted here under Manuals?  It's really useful, and will give you Kohler numbers for the kit and a lot of the individual parts as well.  You can also find a Walbro kit for it.  I don't have the part numbers you might need, but they're readily available.  The WHG on your carb is the Walbro series name.

 

There's also a how-to on this site that's really helpful if you've never done one of these small engine carbs.  It's not hard, I refer to it every time I clean and rebuild one of mine.

 

I'll see if I can find direct links for these two documents.

 

By the way, what kit did you end up getting?

 

[tunahead72 2,424]

Here's the carb reference manual:

Engine Kohler Carburetor reference #TP-2377-E.pdf - Kohler - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

[tunahead72 2,424]

And here's the rebuild instructions I use (I thought it was on our site here, but it's not).  I just noticed the web site there is not secure, so if you're at all nervous about that, let me know and I'll send you a PM with it attached.

 

Microsoft Word - carb rebuild (mgonitzke.net)

 

Your carb will look a little different than the one he's working on, but the basic procedure is the same.  I've only done one Walbro carb like yours, and don't remember the details right now, but I do have some notes somewhere.

 

And as @oliver2-44 mentioned, check the throttle shaft, it will make a difference if it's loose, and it's easily repaired.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

22 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

most of us are about 5 years old and we love lots of pictures.

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

@ebinmaine... did you forget to take your meds? 

 

You know good and well that we are all under 5 years old...?  

 

Don

[JDEVO 9]

Wow!  tunahead thank you for reminding me of all this stuff. This site has thrown me mass documents the last few days. I did download all but have not been thru all of it and to have you lay down working links is incredibly kind of you. and I thank you!!

 

Ohh yeah,,,,i love the name too ,,,,very cool

Edited November 3, 2021 by JDEVO