520 swap not charging

[xstang77 2]

Had anyone swapped a newer p220/90's onto an 88 model year 520? I've drawn up schematics thinking I have the connector re-pinned correctly however I can't get the tractor to charge for the life of me despite swapping regulators,following service manual tests and checking the stator. 

[lynnmor 7,388]

1 hour ago, xstang77 said:

Had anyone swapped a newer p220/90's onto an 88 model year 520? I've drawn up schematics thinking I have the connector re-pinned correctly however I can't get the tractor to charge for the life of me despite swapping regulators,following service manual tests and checking the stator. 

 

If you did the tests in the manual then you should have output at the voltage regulator and the problem lies in the wiring that you changed.

[xstang77 2]

5 hours ago, lynnmor said:

 

If you did the tests in the manual then you should have output at the voltage regulator and the problem lies in the wiring that you changed.

Any tips where to look? I've done the test to confirm I'm getting battery voltage through the wiring back to the battery which is stumping me and I currently have the center b+ post hooked straight to battery but still no go. When i reppined the 9 pin connector i found most were color to color except putting the regulator charge wire current in there of course.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,137]

Do this with the engine not running.

Check voltage across the battery.

Now move the red test lead to the DC+ terminal on the regulator.

You should have the same voltage.

If not the charge current has no way to get to the battery. Check wiring.

Try it with the key in the RUN position but engine not running. This should not make any difference as the DC+ goes straight to the battery on this model.

 

Looks like you already tried this.

 

[xstang77 2]

Yes one of the test I've tried which I saw mentioned on here,I'll chel again though! I was following the attached link on here as well but not sure if I'm interpreting it right as I have no purple wire in regards to connector pinning.  Something interesting,my voltage gauge seems to show battery voltage with key off yet when running is pinned over 16 volts. Not sure if thats a clue or simply a bad gauge as I never get any readings above battery voltage with my meter.

 

[peter lena 8,878]

@xstang77  just asking on this , have you done anything to enhance battery to frame / engine grounding ?  while I do not have a later 520 , have found grounding to be a major help in electrical issues. did a main line ground increase from battery ground point , with 4 ga cable , to engine corner , then added another ground to the rectifier bolt point , and from there to my hood head lights . the multiple plug connectors you have have a bad history of corrosion and mount splitting . just an idea that stopped my electrical issues , btw , this is not in the book , pete 

[lynnmor 7,388]

The ground for the voltage regulator is its mounting bolt, be sure you have a good clean connection there.  Also, make sure that the engine is properly grounded.  @peter lena beat me to the punch.

[peter lena 8,878]

@lynnmor  yup  ,until i detailed in all my grounding points , serrated washers, dielectric grease , and verified my gain , power was here and there . the rectifier ground now goes to the front engine to frame corner , then to lights . 4ga  from battery ground bolt to engine corner . since doing this on my 3 horses , that key start is near instant , just my experience, pete

[xstang77 2]

I have tried running a jumper wire from the regulator mounting bolt directly to battery ground with no change,I'm hoping I have that aspect pinned right as in the link I shared it mentions the 2 white wires not going together in the connector. According to schematics it does in my interpretation?

[lynnmor 7,388]

2 minutes ago, xstang77 said:

I have tried running a jumper wire from the regulator mounting bolt directly to battery ground with no change,I'm hoping I have that aspect pinned right as in the link I shared it mentions the 2 white wires not going together in the connector. According to schematics it does in my interpretation?

 

The schematics are often wrong and there may be some variation by years.  here is what I found on one of my horses:

 

[peter lena 8,878]

@lynnmor  when i am wire hunting  i use these https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=2273543&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&CID=GOOG&gclid=CjwKCAjw2vOLBhBPEiwAjEeK9szvUtJ0SksFlhSeUoc_hgIOvpoOh3XTaTIoP_6GDLSTWJFRBRiZWxoCbSEQAvD_BwE  , by pass plug ins and their usual faults . helps me to quickly verify what's going on / or not , also remove all engine cover bolts , dielectric grease all bolts and reinstall , done the dance many times , my hunt time now is much faster . pete 

[peter lena 8,878]

@xstang77   add this to you info ,https://www.parts-express.com/Molex-9-Pin-Connector-Kit-0.093-1-Set-092-562?gclid=CjwKCAjw2vOLBhBPEiwAjEeK9gznidiE0X2Z2c_zCDL5pCSIw8mJcCi0TB8nMJ0Vw5NRUWhJLKauIhoCxX0QAvD_BwE  , possible good connector source , another detail , that i have changed is to reroute my wiring , totally eliminating wire strain , the initial very quick jam it in there wire placement , should be eliminated .  once you find your cure , detail every build step , if you want to, good luck with it , pete 

[xstang77 2]

That looks like mostly what I have but I'll confirm tonight,this was the schematic I drew up thanks for all the help thus far! I also pulled the flywheel,checked and cleaned stator and magnets,all looked kosher.

On the image the colors I circled are the ones I put color to color,dont mind my chicken scratch!

[lynnmor 7,388]

6 hours ago, peter lena said:

@xstang77   add this to you info ,https://www.parts-express.com/Molex-9-Pin-Connector-Kit-0.093-1-Set-092-562?gclid=CjwKCAjw2vOLBhBPEiwAjEeK9gznidiE0X2Z2c_zCDL5pCSIw8mJcCi0TB8nMJ0Vw5NRUWhJLKauIhoCxX0QAvD_BwE  , possible good connector source , another detail , that i have changed is to reroute my wiring , totally eliminating wire strain , the initial very quick jam it in there wire placement , should be eliminated .  once you find your cure , detail every build step , if you want to, good luck with it , pete 

 

Look at the photo of the package, it says 5 AMP and we have a 20 AMP charging system.  That connector belongs in a TV or radio, not a tractor.  This was a real fail from Wheel Horse.  The very early 520's had a separate charge line with a fuse, but I guess they wanted to save a few pennies, 

[Handy Don 12,663]

29 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

Look at the photo of the package, it says 5 AMP and we have a 20 AMP charging system.  That connector belongs in a TV or radio, not a tractor.  This was a real fail from Wheel Horse.  The very early 520's had a separate charge line with a fuse, but I guess they wanted to save a few pennies, 

Yep, that's the circuit that usually heats up and fails the connector.

I'm sure part of the thinking was that there wasn't anything on the stock tractor on the other side of that connector that needed more than 5 amps. But I totally agree that not enough thought went into the battery charging situation or adding electric accessories.

[xstang77 2]

Yup the first years used it, being this is a later swap into an older chassis I havent located that fused harness to install on the tractor so for now I'm running the b+ terminal straight to battery thus eliminating any possibility with that circuit or in the connector which seems to be a common fail point. The newer engine also uses a starter mounted start solenoid/relay where the previous design used an external frame mounted solenoid which incorporated that fused circuit.

Edited October 30, 2021 by xstang77

[lynnmor 7,388]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Yep, that's the circuit that usually heats up and fails the connector.

I'm sure part of the thinking was that there wasn't anything on the stock tractor on the other side of that connector that needed more than 5 amps. But I totally agree that not enough thought went into the battery charging situation or adding electric accessories.

A seriously discharged battery will draw significant amps, maybe they didn't take that into consideration.

[Handy Don 12,663]

5 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

A seriously discharged battery will draw significant amps, maybe they didn't take that into consideration.

I almost added this and I'm glad you did.

The more interesting thing is that the fuses are appropriately sized after that connector, i.e. from the battery outward. 

[lynnmor 7,388]

I bought some hard to find waterproof connectors a few years ago to do an upgrade, that hasn't happened yet.  In the meantime, 3 of the 4 tractors are spliced and soldered because they have to work when snow falls.

[xstang77 2]

Ok so biggest difference on connector is i dont have a purple wire which I guess is common for the temp so I have that as white going to white and then red on the tractor side is going to red in the connector that doesnt go to b+ reg but the other red engine side I have going straight from reg to battery..

[Handy Don 12,663]

2 hours ago, xstang77 said:

Ok so biggest difference on connector is i dont have a purple wire which I guess is common for the temp so I have that as white going to white and then red on the tractor side is going to red in the connector that doesnt go to b+ reg but the other red engine side I have going straight from reg to battery..

On one of my tractors, most of the wiring was black! Not sure it that was a PO's work, or factory. While its fresh in your mind, make a copy of the wiring diagram with any fixes, different colors, etc. noted. You'll thank yourself in a few years!