416-8 manual/hydraulic lift conversion

[Stubby 19]

An older friend that is not computer savy wants to change his 3116k803 (416-8) over to a hydraulic lift. I am trying to get him to just buy another tractor with a hydraulic lift. But....

 

Remembering back when I swapped one out, needed to replace the shaft also. He will need the valve also.

 

Was also looking at electric lift, but wont the shaft have to be replaced also? 

[Goldnboy 926]

From my experience of doing a B80-8  I needed all the parts from a donor if the same manufacturing period of the C160 thus I assume you will need the same from a 416H. 

 

It was pretty easy to do.

[Handy Don 12,235]

2 hours ago, Goldnboy said:

From my experience of doing a B80-8  I needed all the parts from a donor if the same manufacturing period of the C160 thus I assume you will need the same from a 416H. 

 

It was pretty easy to do.

Frankly, and emphatically, I disagree. The control valves for the 400 tractors are inside the hoodstand and have challenging hose or steel tubing hydro plumbing routing. Also, importantly, the hydro/manual lift rock shafts are different which means a LOT of disassembly and re-assembly (the rockshaft can be impossible to remove, if you read threads here). Plus, you need a place to put the hydro pump that doesn't interfere with whatever attachments you plan to use (mower, blower, snow blade, etc.) and connect it to the motor somehow!

 

Minimally, you'd need donor parts for: Hydraulic pump, lift cylinder, rockhaft, control valve and linkage/lever, pressure relief valve (if not already incorporated in the pump or the control valve), hoses, oil filter holder and filter, oil reservoir (on the -H tractors, this is incorporated in the transaxle!), assorted fittings, and tin where the lift control exits the hoodstand.

 

The 300, 400, and 500 "H" tractors with hydro lift are using the Eaton 1100--a hydro transmission, not an 8-speed with a separate pump--to get lift cylinder support.

 

I merged the engine and topsides of a 518-H with the chassis, transmission, steering and hydraulics of a 520 but I already had  hydro motion controls so except for fiddling to get the lift control settled and the motion linkages aligned, I had the parts I needed.

 

@Stubby your advice is sound.

Electric lift is possible but the parts come dear and, as you note, it requires new rockshaft AND new left side tin above the footrest as well.

Best to either find a 416-H or 520-H with a blown motor and do an engine transplant, or just get a lift-equipped tractor.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Handy Don

[wallfish 17,011]

3 hours ago, Stubby said:

An older friend that is not computer savy wants to change his 3116k803 (416-8) over to a hydraulic lift. I am trying to get him to just buy another tractor with a hydraulic lift. But....

 

Remembering back when I swapped one out, needed to replace the shaft also. He will need the valve also.

 

Was also looking at electric lift, but wont the shaft have to be replaced also? 

Electric lifts can be slow

Hydraulic lift can be involved

Lift assist springs can be added fairly cheap and easy

Guess it all depends on the purpose for needing it.

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

I’d find an electric lift by yes they are pricy. Mine seems quick to me? I know someone with a couple nos one but they wouldn’t be cheap. Pic of extended tin and bracket. No idea about the rock shaft as I acquired this wit the electric lift installed.

[Handy Don 12,235]

51 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

I’d find an electric lift by yes they are pricy. Mine seems quick to me? I know someone with a couple nos one but they wouldn’t be cheap. Pic of extended tin and bracket. No idea about the rock shaft as I acquired this wit the electric lift installed.

 

A member had one in the classifieds a while back.

[echris 1,425]

Me and my siblings got together and bought my Dad an electric lift for his 414-8 back in the early 2000's. It was a WH model and look like @WheelhorseBob's but I found it really slow compared to hydraulic.

I wonder if there are different models of the lift?!?

[953 nut 55,316]

On 10/16/2021 at 12:10 PM, Stubby said:

I am trying to get him to just buy another tractor with a hydraulic lift.

Too much work involved in changing out the rock shaft! Looks simple in the drawing, just put part# 9 in place of #46 but the factory didn't use anti-Rust and the two parts and they will be brown welded together.

 

 

[Handy Don 12,235]

52 minutes ago, echris said:

Me and my siblings got together and bought my Dad an electric lift for his 414-8 back in the early 2000's. It was a WH model and look like @WheelhorseBob's but I found it really slow compared to hydraulic.

I wonder if there are different models of the lift?!?

As far as I know, only one model of electric lift. Others are grunt (manual) and ahhhh (hydraulic).

[echris 1,425]

15 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Too much work involved in changing out the rock shaft! Looks simple in the drawing, just put part# 9 in place of #46 but the factory didn't use anti-Rust and the two parts and they will be brown welded together.

 

I did the conversion on my Dad's and it was a bigger job than I expected. Even though it was only a few years old at the time.
 

14 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

As far as I know, only one model of electric lift. Others are grunt (manual) and ahhhh (hydraulic).

If you look at the pics above from @WheelhorseBob and then the classified link you posted above @Handy Don, the electric motor is definitely different. My Dad's kit was the one with the large rectangular electric motor like WheelHorseBob. The one in the classifieds is different. Curious! Anyone know the difference? 

[Handy Don 12,235]

1 hour ago, echris said:

I did the conversion on my Dad's and it was a bigger job than I expected. Even though it was only a few years old at the time.
 

If you look at the pics above from @WheelhorseBob and then the classified link you posted above @Handy Don, the electric motor is definitely different. My Dad's kit was the one with the large rectangular electric motor like WheelHorseBob. The one in the classifieds is different. Curious! Anyone know the difference? 

 

The angles of the photos in the classifieds and from @wheelhorsebob differ in a way that makes it hard to see that those actuators are the same.

In the classified, you are looking at the side with the gearbox at the right side and the stationary pin to the right. In the above shot, you are looking down at the top of the gearbox with the stationary pin below coming toward the viewer.

 

[echris 1,425]

You're right, it is the same. Good catch.

[Handy Don 12,235]

On 10/16/2021 at 12:10 PM, Stubby said:

An older friend that is not computer savy wants to change his 3116k803 (416-8) over to a hydraulic lift. I am trying to get him to just buy another tractor with a hydraulic lift. But....

 

Remembering back when I swapped one out, needed to replace the shaft also. He will need the valve also.

 

Was also looking at electric lift, but wont the shaft have to be replaced also? 

So, @Stubby, what did your friend do in the end?

[Stubby 19]

On 11/1/2021 at 9:55 AM, Handy Don said:

So, @Stubby, what did your friend do in the end?

He said: Bought a package with most of parts for actuator lift.  Got my work cut out for me.....rebuilding this winter. Hope to get it right. 

 

 

[953 nut 55,316]

2 hours ago, Stubby said:

Got my work cut out for me.....rebuilding this winter.

[Handy Don 12,235]

4 hours ago, Stubby said:

He said: Bought a package with most of parts for actuator lift.  Got my work cut out for me.....rebuilding this winter. Hope to get it right. 

 

Make sure you take a lot of pictures as you disassemble (and there will be a LOT of disassembly) so you can remember how it goes together later!

And good luck!

BTW, be sure to get the manual for the electric lift, especially for the wiring diagram, and study it before you start. You may want to label the existing wiring, too.