How to prolong a KT17 series 1?

[Fordiesel69 258]

So a friend scored a C-175 with a series 1 KT17.  I have read on many forums that standby generators that used them and the RV generators would never throw a rod as they are always operated on level ground.  So when these engines are in a wheel horse, and operated on level ground, and with the recommended 1/2 quart overfill of oil, can these last?  Is there any other mods to prolong their life before the back rod comes poking thru the side of the block?  

 

 

[pfrederi 17,522]

The KT17 (Series 1) on my sweepster came from a JD317 that my brother bought used then ran it for many years. Hour meter had died a 2200 hours.  Crank seal leaked badly so he was constantly overfilling it with  oil.  Finally pulled it put in a new engine and this one sat in his barn for a few years then I got it changed out some tins and intake manifold put a new seal on the crank and she runs well ...smokes some on startup but it clears after a couple minutes.  Since it was JD spec I had to use an electric PTO engagement is a bit rough...wish i could use a manual one...

 

Overfill and keep it that way....

 

 

[kpinnc 11,665]

This thread interests me as well, because I have a Series I that I've been afraid to use. I have some pretty good hills here, and I don't want to risk it.

 

My engine has several hundred hours on it, and runs decent. 

 

I'd be curious what others have done to "protect" this engine.

[Maxwell-8 4,274]

Are the series I prone to trowing a rod? 

What was improved on the series II?

[peter lena 8,499]

@Fordiesel69  many hours of this now , you might try , some RISLONE  ZINK ADDITIVE TO YOUR OIL , instruction on bottle , very easy to add , and i experienced   smother running  engines , have it in  4 engines , just an example to prolong your engine life , pete

[cjb398 25]

I have a C-175 with the series 1 engine. The owners manual is pretty clear that you should "NEVER overfill the engine crankcase with oil". I have heard of overfilling it to protect it, however, but is 1/2 quart the generally accepted amount? What is the danger of overfilling it that is the reason for that statement in the owners manual?

 

Another question. Is there more of a problem going up hills, down hills, or across hills (and does it matter which side is uphill)?

[pfrederi 17,522]

37 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Are the series I prone to trowing a rod? 

What was improved on the series II?

Series 2 had full pressure lube not just a pressurized spray.

[pfrederi 17,522]

18 minutes ago, cjb398 said:

I have a C-175 with the series 1 engine. The owners manual is pretty clear that you should "NEVER overfill the engine crankcase with oil". I have heard of overfilling it to protect it, however, but is 1/2 quart the generally accepted amount? What is the danger of overfilling it that is the reason for that statement in the owners manual?

 

Another question. Is there more of a problem going up hills, down hills, or across hills (and does it matter which side is uphill)?

Hill are hills

Get too full and more than just the dipper is getting into the oil pool.  Who know how much everyone has their own opinion/experience..

 

[Maxwell-8 4,274]

Just now, pfrederi said:

Hill are hills

Get too full and more than just the dipper is getting into the oil pool.  Who know how much everyone has their own opinion/experience..

 

A fault a lot af people make, even some very experienced car mecanics, is chencking the oil on a dipstick that was screwed all the way down. I le tthe dipstick fall, as far as it wants to, but never push or screw it back in before mesuring the oil.

 

[kpinnc 11,665]

4 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

A fault a lot af people make, even some very experienced car mecanics, is chencking the oil on a dipstick that was screwed all the way down. I le tthe dipstick fall, as far as it wants to, but never push or screw it back in before mesuring the oil.

 

An excellent point. I'm amazed at how many different manuals show reading it different ways. Some say fully seated, some say resting at the lip of the fill tube, some say nothing at all.

 

5 hours ago, cjb398 said:

I have heard of overfilling it to protect it, however, but is 1/2 quart the generally accepted amount? What is the danger of overfilling it that is the reason for that statement in the owners manual?

 

Curious to see everyone's response here too. At what point is too much- too much?

Edited October 7, 2021 by kpinnc

[Lee1977 6,572]

My limited experience I think running across a grade with the PTO side is the worse thing you can do .I say limited experience as I don't have  a series one. I mow some steep banks and ditches with a walk behind just blew up a

H F 212. I bought it in 2013 so it lasted at least 7 years. It didn't like the PTO side up. I used a Wisconsin Robin for twenty years doing the same job. It didn't like the slopes either but would just get hot and quit . Was fine after cooling down. I never noticed much difference with either side up with it. I'm talking about steep 45 degrees are better at some places.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

Quote

operated on level ground, and with the recommended 1/2 quart overfill of oil

@Fordiesel69

 

I'm a flatlander here and have never over-filled mine. (1980 model)

 

Previous owner (a local business) beat the snot out of it before I bought it almost 30 years ago.  It must have received little maintenance during the time they owned and used it.  All kinds of things were 'plumb wore out', but the engine was fine. They mowed about 5 acres and plowed their parking lot with it.  All flat.  

 

I've been mowing an acre and plowing snow with it since I got it.  I figure I probably put maybe 50-60 hours a year. Just this Spring I installed an hour meter so I don't know the actual.  Change oil every 25 hours or so. (Spring and Fall) Have always run straight 30 weight Rotella T1 and for the last several  years have been adding an ounce and a half of ZDDP Zinc additive.

 

I bet it's got around 4000 hrs on it based on the hours I've racked up ( 38 ) since installing the hour meter and estimating the usage that the p.o. had on it.

 

It doesn't smoke at all and runs perfectly.

 

So apparently the 'keep 'em flat' theory holds some truth.  Or I'm just lucky.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Maxwell-8 4,274]

All intresting info, I am looking into buying one that runs and had a new coil..

 

Price is $200. Don't know yet if it's a series I or II, would that be a good deal?

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

5 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

a good deal?

 

I'd say it could be...  it all depends on the overall condition of the engine.

 

"runs" is very subjective.

 

If it's a Series II, it 'probably' is worth it.   If it's a Series I with LOW HOURS (but how can one tell?) it 'might' be worth it.

 

 

[JohnD 145]

The Series I manual (Kohler KT17 & KT19 Series II OM TP-2107-C 12-95.pdf) claims there are no issues for angles below 30 degrees.  Someone has a video link on here showing how steep 30 degrees really is. 

 

So far so good on the Series I on my C-175  my very non-flat back woods...  (knock on wood)

 

[Fordiesel69 258]

Ok so it seems it is very simple.  Flat ground is the key to a long life with these.......

 

Never thought of zinc, but with the "SP" rated oils having an even further reduction, I think its time to start using it. 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

16 minutes ago, Fordiesel69 said:

time to start using it

 

I think so too.  It's pretty cheap insurance.  Just don't use "too much"!  That can turn the oil acidic which is probably worse than none at all!

 

[gvthnks 46]

On 10/8/2021 at 6:18 AM, Maxwell-8 said:

 would that be a good deal?

 

 Maybe.  Remember the newest series 1s are 40-ish years old.  Even with low hours, I would suspect the crank seals of being weak and needing replacing.  They're available and easy to replace once the PTO (if equipped) and flywheel and stator are off. 

On that note, when the flywheel is off, check the magnets on the inside of the flywheel as they can come loose.   My earliest series 1 is from 1978 and one of it's magnets came unglued.  I was fortunate that I was working on it when it happened and it didn't destroy the stator.  I have a M18 that has dropped a magnet and so it's charging system is junk.  Two other KT type engines I have include a series 2 in an Allis Chalmers and a M20 that are both fine.

I'd also check the bendix drive bushing on the starter.  The rubber bushing deteriorates over time and the bendix drive just slips on the drive shell and won't turn the ring gear.  Easy to replace the bendix drive, but the engine has to come out of everything I own to get to it.   

 

My point is that it's worth checking before you install it in something and figure that into your cost equation.

 

That earliest KT17 series 1 I have runs great and doesn't burn oil by the way.  They're good engines, parts are plentiful, and they sound cool when idling.