1984 Work Horse GT-1600 REFRESH

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

3 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

I wonder if I could take a large drill bit and “bevel” the other side ?  @ebinmaine  @Handy Don   @Jeff-C175

 

I think you would end up with too large holes.

 

Maybe your welder could run a bead around each hole to build it up and then cut the taper.

[Handy Don 12,227]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:18 PM, Horse Newbie said:

I wonder if I could take a large drill bit and “bevel” the other side ?  @ebinmaine  @Handy Don   @Jeff-C175

The bevels are not drilled, they are stamped in. Drilling would remove metal in a way that might prevent the lug bolt from fully tightening against the wheel before the angle under the head reached the hub. End result? Wheel not on right!

 

Edit: Wheels are not mounted in same direction as automobile wheels. See post # 304

Edited November 13, 2021 by Handy Don

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I wouldn't bother. 

What, ??? You would run the bolts against the unbeveled side ?

 

3 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Are you changing over to lugs and studs?

Had not thought about it... don’t change tractor tires that often... or balance and rotate

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

The bevels are not drilled, they are stamped in. Drilling would remove metal in a way that might prevent the lug bolt from fully tightening against the wheel before the angle under the head reached the hub. End result? Wheel not on right!

Crap !

[Handy Don 12,227]

2 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

Crap !

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

3 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

not drilled, they are stamped in

 

You sure Don?  I could see adding the taper as a separate operation.  If they were in fact stamped it would likely be done in the same stamping operation that did the rest of the center piece and if so it would be impossible for the taper to be on the wrong side.

[Handy Don 12,227]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:26 PM, Horse Newbie said:

Crap !

Are both wheels the same? 

 

Edit: Wheels are not mounted in same direction as automobile wheels. See post # 304

 

I'd want to try to salvage them rather than discard.

Tactic would be to:

1. use a spacer between the hub and the wheel of about ½-¾"

2. bevel the holes in the spacer on the side toward the wheel so that when the lug nut is in the wheel, it does NOT contact the spacer (except along the barrel of the lug bolt of course)

3. LIGHTLY drill a bevel into the correct side of the lug holes on the wheels.

Not sure it'd work but little to lose.

If it doesn't make the wheel tight. Abandon

Edited November 13, 2021 by Handy Don

[Handy Don 12,227]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:33 PM, Jeff-C175 said:

 

You sure Don?  I could see adding the taper as a separate operation.  If they were in fact stamped it would likely be done in the same stamping operation that did the rest of the center piece and if so it would be impossible for the taper to be on the wrong side.

 

Edit: Wheels are not mounted in same direction as automobile wheels. See post # 304

I'm sure they are stamped, yes. Separate operation from the other shaping, usually. You can see it because there is usually a little bit of a lip around the outside of the bevel from the displaced metal.

Wheel centering is not the issue, of course, the hub handles that. Its having enough metal-to-metal (lug to wheel) contact surface so that friction can maintain the tightness. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Handy Don

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

Here is something to think about... See the pic ?

Notice where the wheel has rubbed the hub in between each lug hole and left a mark. I did not notice this when I refreshed my 1994 520H.

Now imagine if the wheels were bolted the other way... the contact point between the hub and wheels would be on each side of each lug hole. 10 separate contact points instead of 5.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Horse Newbie

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

Now I’m gonna have to get the 520 out tomorrow and see how those wheels are...

[Handy Don 12,227]

15 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

Here is something to think about... See the pic ?

Notice where the wheel has rubbed the hub in between each lug hole and left a mark. I did not notice this when I refreshed my 1994 520H.

Now imagine if the wheels were bolted the other way... the contact point between the hub and wheels would be on each side of each lug hole. 10 separate contact points instead of 5.

 

 

 

These 5 "rub" marks are correct--those ridges are supposed to contact the hub. There aren't equivalent ridges on the other side.

Looking closely at the bevels, though, these do seemed to be drilled and not have a lip (apologies to @Jeff-C175) so yes, likely a manufacturing oops.

 

Also just realized that my spacer idea would likely move the wheel out from the hub to far to permit the center hole to center the wheel on the hub. Blast

 

Out to the garage to check on a 520 wheel that's off the tractor....

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Handy Don

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

Like I said @Handy Don, I have no choice but tomorrow, get the 520H out of the tractor shed and compare the wheels side by side... Got to figure out what may have went wrong in manufacturing, possibly wrong wheels/ not Wheel Horse, or what ?

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

5 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

Like I said @Handy Don, I have no choice but tomorrow, get the 520H out of the tractor shed and compare the wheels side by side... Got to figure out what may have went wrong in manufacturing, possibly wrong wheels/ not Wheel Horse, or what ?

 

Wheel Horse or not, the taper is on the wrong side.  Those are probably Monday production.

 

Ask your welder buddy if he can run a bead around the holes and recut the taper on the other side.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

1 minute ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Wheel Horse or not, the taper is on the wrong side.  Those are probably Monday production.

Right, because the wide part of the wheel goes out... no matter what, correct ?

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

3 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Wheel Horse or not, the taper is on the wrong side.  Those are probably Monday production.

Monday production... let it ride... no one will notice... man what a hangover...

[Handy Don 12,227]

20 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

Now I’m gonna have to get the 520 out tomorrow and see how those wheels are...

 

Pictures from a 520 wheel off my tractor...I'm gobsmacked.

 

Hub side has ridges (blue arrow) and beveled holes (red arrows) like yours.

 

Outside has no bevels and indents like yours!

 

I never noticed this so I was fully off base here. Unlike automotive wheels the bevel seems not to be important.

And yes, if on the other way, the ridges curving around the lug holes would make contact with the hub)

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

Did you go take your wheels off to see ?

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

gobsmacked

 

Me too!

 

Now I've gotta check mine!

[Handy Don 12,227]

2 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

Did you go take your wheels off to see ?

It was already off -- doing some mods on the tractor. 

But it WAS buried under a bunch of other parts.

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

3 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Now I've gotta check mine!

It can wait until tomorrow...

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

It was already off

Thanks for checking though... so my wheels are correct ?

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

6 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

my wheels are correct

 

Apparently, because my spare set which I just checked are the same as yours!

 

And @Handy Don they DO appear to be stamped.

 

We don't use tapered lug nuts though, I forgot about that!

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Handy Don 12,227]

I have to say yes, they are.

Makes me wonder, though, why?

I'm gonna guess that since cars could use wheels of this size and configuration, and if they did, the deep side would be inward covering the brake drum, that WH bought car wheels that didn't meet the standards for automotive use and were stamped "off road only". They were plenty strong enough for low speed tractor use and the fastening system was likewise "ok". That's my new guess!

Edited November 12, 2021 by Handy Don

[Handy Don 12,227]

On 11/11/2021 at 9:39 PM, Jeff-C175 said:

We don't use tapered lug nuts though, I forgot about that

Aha! I'd never noticed that. Now I have to look at my lug bolts!

 

Edit: Wheels are not mounted in same direction as automobile wheels and lug bolts are tapered. See post # 304

Edited November 13, 2021 by Handy Don

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

Just now, Jeff-C175 said:

We don't use tapered lug nuts though, I forgot about that

What?... you have studs and lug nuts ?

 

Because my 94 520H has the factory lug bolts with tapers.