I need help ID'ing a Fuel Pump.

[the jeep driver 29]

Hello... I have a 1985 Wheel Horse 417A with a 17 HP Kohler Engine, Model KT17QS, Spec No. 24350.

 

The fuel pump doesn't seem to be working as I'm not getting gas into the carburetor when I turn the key and crank the engine.  I would think I would be able to see gas entering the carb as I crank, correct?  I changed the fuel filter, and verified that gas is able to move from the fuel tank through the filter.  I don't know how, and can't find a way, to test the fuel pump, other than observing that I'm not getting gas into carb.

 

I used a Kohler KT17 Parts Manual to get a part number for a new pump, but my Spec No. isn't listed in the manual.  My local Wheel Horse/Toro dealer wasn't able to get a match either.  

 

Anyone able to help me figure out what pump to buy?  Would this one work?  The listing says it "Fits Specific Kohler KT17" engines... 

 

Thanks in advance!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

When the 24350 spec number is entered here this what comes up

https://www.partstree.com/models/kt17-24323-kohler-k-series-engine-made-for-wheel-horse-17hp-12-7kw

[WHX?? 48,828]

Looks to  be a standard  mechanical fuel pump so you have two options. Get a rebuild kit from then and now auto

https://www.then-now-auto.com/product-category/fuel-pump-kits/kohler-fuel-pump-kits/

 

or role the dice on on a fleabay cheapy for 15 bucks. I prefer the rebuild kit as some of the guy's report bad luck with the cheapys.

Although I just put a fleabay special on a C-121I'M on a budget with and works fine lasts a long time.... err juries still out on the last a long time part. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Pump-Kits-For-Kohler-10-12-16-14-HP-K241-K301-K321-K341-Engines/203509030055?pageci=ce9c6aff-12a0-4756-a8a9-1ed1a3a91cbc&redirect=mobile

 

Beg your  pardon four options 3 & 4 being convert to a pulse pump or electric ....plenty of threads here on doing both. I still prefer the rebuild just cause I am an stay orginal nut case and just don't know any better! 

Edited September 25, 2021 by WHX??

[953 nut 55,313]

Don't buy a plastic pump!  You can buy a rebuild kit from Then and Now https://www.then-now-auto.com/kohler-fuel-pumps-2/ for about $ 30.00 for the pump you have, give them a call.

Many of us are replacing the manual pumps with electric. @pfrederi has a link to a good electric pump source.

        seems @WHX?? can type faster than my one finger!

[WHX?? 48,828]

12 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Don't buy a plastic pump

Yah I know Richard ... did I mention a budget and not having an attachment to this tractor? 

Add insult to injury it came to the ranch with a plastic that looked fairly new. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by WHX??

[Gregor 4,846]

2 hours ago, the jeep driver said:

  I would think I would be able to see gas entering the carb as I crank, correct?

If you do, you have other problems than a fuel pump.  Gas only enters the throat of the carburetor, IF the engine is running, and sucking it out of the bowl.

 

Take the fuel line off of the carb, and see if fuel is being pumped through  it.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Gregor

[Bill D 1,926]

Because that engine has a powered ignition I would go for an electric pump.  Wire it to the positive terminal on the coil so it will shut off with the engine if one of the safeties is activated.

[jtrosp1980 88]

Take the line off the fuel tank see if you have fuel if so reinstall then take the on off the carburetor side from fuel pump and see if turning over the motor a few cranks see if fuel pump spits out fuel if so put fuel in head 

[the jeep driver 29]

The link in my OP was for a (supposedly) Kohler pump, and with the link provided by gwest_ca-(File Mod), was able to see that the Kohler one was a direct fit... I don't know if it's plastic, but for now it seems to be the quickest option to get me up and running; push mowing is taking way too long...  So that's what I'm doing, hoping this pump works as well as it's rated on amazon. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by the jeep driver
grammar

[the jeep driver 29]

The pump from amazon, while being a genuine Kohler, and with the part # seeming to match, isn't the correct one for my tractor as far as I can tell.  It just doesn't look right.  Mine is under the manifold (if it is indeed a manifold, IDK) and mounts into the block with four bolts.  The new seems to be made to mount on the side and with two bolts.  I am not able to find any YouTube videos showing the removal of a fuel pump such as mine.  Would the "manifold" have to some off?  Seems it would.  

 

The new pump isn't the time saver, plug-and-play solution I was going for; I should have just gone with the electric pump option.  @pfrederi, it was mentioned you have a source on what pump to use?  Can you post the link?  I don't see it on your profile page nor in your signature... 

Any advice or thoughts on any of the above would be appreciated! 

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/solidstatepump.php

[the jeep driver 29]

12 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/solidstatepump.php

Thanks, I'll check it out.... 

 

....as a Jeep guy, I've seen a M274 in person at a show.  Impressive that you own one.... maybe it was yours; I think it was at the Bantam Jeep Heritage Festival in Butler, PA. 

[pfrederi 17,741]

1 hour ago, the jeep driver said:

Thanks, I'll check it out.... 

 

....as a Jeep guy, I've seen a M274 in person at a show.  Impressive that you own one.... maybe it was yours; I think it was at the Bantam Jeep Heritage Festival in Butler, PA. 

M37 and M274 are mine M35 is a friends...

 

Had her at the Harford truck show not the one in Butler.

[the jeep driver 29]

As I'm putting the new pump on, I'm reading on wheelhorseforum.com to "take power from the "A" terminal of your ignition switch" which on the  417A is the seat switch.  So every time I sit down the pump runs, regardless of whether the mower is running.  Is this correct for my application, or do I need to find another power source, such as the accessory terminal on the ignition switch? 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

The A terminal is for accessories and that would work except it is only powered in the RUN  key position - not START.

The I (eye) terminal for the ignition would be a better choice.

click on the fuzzy picture to see the diagrams or download them.

You could power it by the (+) ignition coil terminal and if the pump runs you know the coil is also powered.

 

[953 nut 55,313]

7 minutes ago, the jeep driver said:

"take power from the "A" terminal of your ignition switch"

power source, such as the accessory terminal on the ignition switch?

The "A" terminal of your ignition switch is the accessory terminal. You could connect the fuel pump to the wires that go to the hour/volt meter, they come from the "A" terminal and have no power when the switch is off. I turn the key to the on position for a few seconds to prime the carb.  prior to starting.

[pfrederi 17,741]

All my electric pumps are on Acc.  Switch turned to run listen to the pump when the sound changes turn it to start...

[the jeep driver 29]

Finally wrapped up this stage of the project.  Tractor still doesn't run, so I'm replacing the points and condenser later today.  A HUGE "THANK YOU" to all who help me out with this.  

A note in case it helps someone else out; As posted above, I read on Wheel Horse Forum to connect the pump to the "A" terminal of the switch, here is why I was confused... my Manual has "A" as the seat switch... [WIRE #2 SEAT SWITCH (A)]



While the Manual I downloaded from gwest_ca-(File Mod) here shows this... which is correct.

Thanks again.

EDIT: the pictures posted in the opposite order I wanted, but you'll know what I mean.... top one is correct, bottom one is my owners manual. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by the jeep driver

[Bill D 1,926]

Power the electric pump of the positive terminal of the coil.  If the engine is shut down by a safety switch the fuel pump will stop pumping as well.  Much safer.