PTO Problems - Replacement on 416-8

[joskuk 67]

It's been a while since I've been on here! I have been having some issues with the PTO on my 416 with the Kohler Magnum, I started noticing while I was using the deck. I was looking at the mechanism that engages the PTO and noticed the little pin on the half-ring rod broke (hard to explain, I will try to take some pictures). So it looks like it wasn't consistent on how much pressure was being applied.

 

The PTO was working fine but whenever I put a larger load on it I think it was slipping. With winter coming up I really want to make sure the PTO is in good order for the 2-stage.

 

I'd like to replace the clutch material but really wasn't even sure how to do it, and I think there are probably other parts that make sense to replace/check at the same time. I just wanted to see if anyone has some input on potential PTO issues and what parts I should be replacing when going in there?

 

Thanks!

[8ntruck 7,021]

That little pin that broke is a spirol spring pin - kind of a heavy duty spring pin, since it has two layers of coiled material instead of the one layer found in the spring pins in the hardware store small parts drawers.  Toro still sells them as a service part for somewhere between 2 and 3 bucks. 

 

Yes, all of the clutch engagement pressure is applied through that pin.  That is why it is the two layer version of a spring pin.

 

I needed one this spring, so I ordered it from my local Toro dealer.  I later checked McMaster Carr and found that they stock them for a much lower price.

 

While I was working on my PTO clutch, I noticed that the C clip on the stub shaft in the clutch was not seated in the groove in the stub shaft. I pulled the stub shaft out of the clutch, cleaned it and the roller bearing, put some grease on the roller bearing, and re assembled it with a new C clip.  I initially thought I needed a new clutch lining, but after replacing the pin and C clip, everything was working as it should.  No lining was needed.

 

How thick is your clutch lining?  If it is somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8 inch, you should be fine.  My clutch is old enough that the lining is attached with rivets.  The rivet heads were not worn off, so I figured it was OK.  Newer clutches have the lining glued on.  They can probably be run until they are thinner.

 

Hopefully, somebody with better computer skills will come along and post a parts diagram for a PTO so we can use part numbers from the same picture.

 

Good luck and have fun.

[joskuk 67]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:29 AM, 8ntruck said:

That little pin that broke is a spirol spring pin - kind of a heavy duty spring pin, since it has two layers of coiled material instead of the one layer found in the spring pins in the hardware store small parts drawers.  Toro still sells them as a service part for somewhere between 2 and 3 bucks. 

 

Yes, all of the clutch engagement pressure is applied through that pin.  That is why it is the two layer version of a spring pin.

 

I needed one this spring, so I ordered it from my local Toro dealer.  I later checked McMaster Carr and found that they stock them for a much lower price.

 

While I was working on my PTO clutch, I noticed that the C clip on the stub shaft in the clutch was not seated in the groove in the stub shaft. I pulled the stub shaft out of the clutch, cleaned it and the roller bearing, put some grease on the roller bearing, and re assembled it with a new C clip.  I initially thought I needed a new clutch lining, but after replacing the pin and C clip, everything was working as it should.  No lining was needed.

 

How thick is your clutch lining?  If it is somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8 inch, you should be fine.  My clutch is old enough that the lining is attached with rivets.  The rivet heads were not worn off, so I figured it was OK.  Newer clutches have the lining glued on.  They can probably be run until they are thinner.

 

Hopefully, somebody with better computer skills will come along and post a parts diagram for a PTO so we can use part numbers from the same picture.

 

Good luck and have fun.

Awesome, thanks for the info.  On mine, the pin will definitely need to be replaced. The other issue I see is that the little metal clip that the pin is inserted into, makes contact with the PTO pulley even though the hole for the pin that secures it is not lining up. This is hard to explain, I’m probably not doing a good job, but it seems to me like something is worn out and allowing that shaft in the middle of the PTO to be too far in.

 

As far as the clutch material goes, I’m not sure how much is left. I do not have the tractor with me right now because I’m a couple states away from home.

 

I’m going to see you tonight if I can find a diagram and point out the parts, should make it a bit easier to follow what’s going on.

 

Thanks everyone!

[Lee1977 6,673]

4 hours ago, joskuk said:

Awesome, thanks for the info.  On mine, the pin will definitely need to be replaced. The other issue I see is that the little metal clip that the pin is inserted into, makes contact with the PTO pulley even though the hole for the pin that secures it is not lining up. This is hard to explain, I’m probably not doing a good job, but it seems to me like something is worn out and allowing that shaft in the middle of the PTO to be too far in.

 

As far as the clutch material goes, I’m not sure how much is left. I do not have the tractor with me right now because I’m a couple states away from home.

 

I’m going to see you tonight if I can find a diagram and point out the parts, should make it a bit easier to follow what’s going on.

 

Thanks everyone!

lf the short shaft is too far in the outside C-clip has come out of the groove. There is a C-clip on each side of the bearing. The C-clip are punched out and one side has rounded edges the other side is sharp this side should

be on the outside of the groove. I have had to replace the short shaft when the groove wore.  A bad ball bearing can also cause the shaft to be in too far. In the last 44years I have replaced every part pf the PTO with the exception

of the bell pulley.