Blower 6-6211 + 6-9111 "Restoration"

[peter lena 8,634]

@Jeff-C175 , liked your experimental hose set up , as you know if you don't  try things , you go nowhere on your work. think that lower back of blower chute housing is a vent of some type , seen mine discharge wet snow , reducing a chute pile up. your need to " tweek " that auger is not unusual . the deflections  that you counter bent out of  it , went thru the entire length of it , giving you your bend areas . I used a  long length 1" heavy wall pipe , sch 40  to gently  counter bend mine . just a  pull or push  and a spin let me find my similar problem . did mine years ago , still spins up with smooth ease.  pete

[Handy Don 12,235]

11 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

The green arrow area is OPEN to the inside

FWIW, I'd say it was left open because: a) it doesn't affect the operation of the blower, and b) a graceful closure would have been extra labor and materials and may have created a place where moisture or debris would accumulate. 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

58 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

FWIW, I'd say it was left open because: a) it doesn't affect the operation of the blower, and b) a graceful closure would have been extra labor and materials and may have created a place where moisture or debris would accumulate. 

 

You're probably correct, but my 'scientist' mind always thinks there must be more to it!  

[Handy Don 12,235]

20 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

You're probably correct, but my 'scientist' mind always thinks there must be more to it!  

I so respect the engineering evident in the WH products that I, too, always look for the "why did they do it this way?" when working on the machines. The 1-stage blower is a great example with the chain routing to have the auger turn in the opposite direction from the PTO without gears and the simple "push here" with a fixed rod to lift it four inches--adequate for navigating a driveway. Even the "wings" to give it a wider bite were a simple but effective addition.

I've often admired the the JD317/318 with their longitudinal engine and shaft-driven hydro pump, for example, but the extra work to get the engine perfectly aligned vs. the WH's somewhat forgiving, less expensive, clutch-able, and easier to assemble drive belt raised its costs and price and made it costlier to maintain.

These things are one of the reasons so many of us appreciate older machines--there was a calibrated blend of craft, engineering, science, manufacturing expertise, and marketing savvy in every one (and, true, the occasional "oops").

Edited September 25, 2021 by Handy Don

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

I don't know if this is going to work or not... but it's a good example of something to NOT DO!

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6hddw1vZRxp8TNfj6

 

Link is a short video I just made.  First run!

 

This thing is MUCH noisier than I was expecting!  Make sure you don't have your speakers turned up too loud.

 

I just noticed that I was turning it backward.  I'll have to spin the motor around!  Don't think that's why it was so noisy though...

 

[edit: No, it was spinning the correct direction, it LOOKS like it running backward in the video though, I presume because of the frame rate of the video.]

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Here's what I came up with to anchor the chute cable...  no comments on the buggered up screw slot please!  I know I ooopsied.  I was too lazy to go get the correct size screwdriver!

 

I refined @pfrederi 's idea just below a little bit:

 

Here's mine.  That's a ground lug for 6ga to 14ga wire.  The small tube is cut off from an old telescoping car antenna (a good source of chrome plated brass tubing!).  The cable is 1/16 stainless.

 

And the other one:

 

Works really nicely!  Turns very smoothly.  Happy!

 

If I ever need to replace the cable I'll probably use one of the 'dual lug' type:

 

 

I guess no one looked at the short video in my previous post?  I know if anyone had that I would surely need a flak jacket!  

 

Oh yeah, I also cut the shaft down.  You don't want to know how I did that!  Don't ask!  Suffice to say I didn't take it off the blower to do so.

If you watch the videos, you might think to yourself, "Gee, I wonder if you could spin that with the motor, and put a hacksaw against the shaft... and ... "

I think I might have gave it way I'm afraid.  Oh well. 

 

If you try my stupid trick, make sure you don't cut all the way through with it spinning!  Just imagine the damage a flying chunk of 3/4" shaft would do!

 

 

Kinda dark, but you can see it's cut down:

 

Now to hook it up to the tractor and see what size belt I might need.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

@peter lena @pfrederi @Ed Kennell @Handy Don

 

The modified mounting bracket and idler shaft are perfect!  Mounts right up to the Tach-A-Matic and the pulleys line up exactly with the PTO pulley.

 

I got to trying to measure for the belt this evening and would like to ask advice from you esteemed gentlemen:

 

I used a piece of 5/16" Dacron rope and ran it around.  Took it off and measured 64".

 

I understand that the rope sits deeper (actually at the bottom) in the V groove whereas an actual belt sits at the top of the groove.

 

Obviously the belt needs to be longer than the rope, but by how much?  One inch? Two inches? More?

 

I'm going to hit NAPA tomorrow and see if they will let me purchase like 4 sizes and return the ones that don't fit, but was wondering if there is some 'rule of thumb' for how much longer the belt needs to be than the rope.

 

Any help?

[peter lena 8,634]

@Jeff-C175 , liked your experimental hose set up , as you know if you don't  try things , you go nowhere on your work. think that lower back of blower chute housing is a vent of some type , seen mine discharge wet snow , reducing a chute pile up. your need to " tweek " that auger is not unusual . the deflections  that you counter bent out of  it , went thru the entire length of it , giving you your bend areas . I used a  long length 1" heavy wall pipe , sch 40  to gently  counter bend mine . just a  pull or push  and a spin let me find my similar problem . did mine years ago , still spins up with smooth ease.  pete

[peter lena 8,634]

@Jeff-C175 , like your chute cable set up , that's the same thing I  came to , to improve a nagging chute cable function . as far as your belt drive , probably have better luck at  TS , for belt experimentation, remember the lubrication note I  sent on the spring loaded pulley belt  frame ? the easier that functions , the better it works , I also use a pry bar to pull against that spring tension to mount my drive belt . loads on easily . sorry don,t have the size of the belt , but you are close , probably an inch or two . that spring pulley tension will let you know . my spring is fully off its sitting  look ,drive moves very solidly and smooth .  your experimentation , is making you a better set up , pete 

[Ed Kennell 38,220]

I don't have experience using a rope Jeff.  But I use an old broken belt to measure.  Just overlap the ends and mark the length on the wide side of the belt  

 

If you don't have a long broken belt, you could probably use any belt and measure the bottom loop and the top loop to the same mark on the blower and PTO pulleys.   Block the tensioner in the desired position.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Thanks guys!

 

I found this because I knew there had to be a formula.

 

https://www.regalbeloit.com/brands/Browning/how-can-i-identify-the-correct-v-belt-type-when-the-belt-is-broken-or-no-longer-labeled

 

Of course this doesn't take into account the idler assembly but could be a good sanity check.

 

Going out to take a few more measurements and see how the formula works out.

 

My local Tractor Supply doesn't stock many belts for some reason, and I've been going to local NAPA for decades so they know me.  TS is on the way and I'll stop there first.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

I just ran that formula.  Measuring from one end pulley to the other, disregarding the idler assembly, it's giving me 67".

 

So now I need to guess how much extra length I need for the idler.

 

I think some of the IPLs that I looked at give a belt length of 70"

 

Does the idler really take up 3" of 'slack'?

 

I guess I could figure that out mathematically too... more complicated though!  I'll give it a shot.

 

[Ed Kennell 38,220]

1 minute ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Does the idler really take up 3" of 'slack'?

I no longer have a blower, but my foggy memory tells me it would easily take up the 3" slack.   You need some extra length just to get it on the two fixed pullys

[Handy Don 12,235]

6 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I guess I could figure that out mathematically too... more complicated though!  I'll give it a shot.

 

Oops, just realized the blower has both tensioner and idler pulleys and you have to measure at the blower's longest distance from the PTO

Edited September 27, 2021 by Handy Don

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Draw a triangle.

 

Two triangles?  With a common side?

 

I'm going to grab a 68, 69, and a 70.  One of those is bound to be correct!

[pfrederi 17,741]

What am i missing.  You replicated the tachmatic mounting I assume you have the stock pulley on the blower why not use the standard belt???  5/8 69"  WH9750

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

18 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

5/8 69"  WH9750

 

I don't think you're missing anything!  

 

Since I'm mixing and matching older parts to a newer machine...

 

I've variously seen the 9750 belt referred to as 69 but also as 70, so there's that.

 

The big difference here is that the pulleys on the older blowers took a 1/2" belt and not a 5/8.

 

I think the 1/2" belt will be OK on the PTO pulley... at least I hope so!  I don't want to have to swap out the drive or idler pulley on the blower for the newer ones if I don't have to!  But I'm sure that a 5/8 belt would be an improvement.  I might look into doing that next year.

 

I'm also uncertain of the drive pulley diameter on the newer blowers.  This one is 5-1/2", but haven't measured the idler V pulley yet.  I'm sure the flat idler will be fine.

 

Also, don't the newer blowers have a 7/8" jack shaft diameter?

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Handy Don 12,235]

42 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Two triangles?  With a common side?

 

I'm going to grab a 68, 69, and a 70.  One of those is bound to be correct!

Works for me! Add 'em up and don't double count the "common" side!

The only risk of "too long" that I can see is that the belt might hit a "left tilted" front axle.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Went to TS and got a 66, 68, and a 70.  They had a 69 but it was USED!  Not just tried for fit, but USED! WELL USED! AND DAMAGED! Part of it was actually BURNT where it appeared that it had wedged and jammed between a pulley and something else.

 

And he had the nerve to bring it back, and the store actually took it back!  And put that piece of garbage back on the shelf!  I brought it to customer service and said (in nicer words) "WTF is this? Why would you allow this to be returned and then put it back on the shelf?". The guy looked at it and tossed it in the trash can... DUHHHHHH... 

 

And it was the only 69 they had, which is probably the correct size.  But the 70 works fine so I'm going to roll with that and return the other two.  Or, maybe I'll return all three and go to NAPA for the 69 that I believe will be a better fit.

 

I think the tension spring is incorrect, it doesn't seem strong enough.  Can someone show me a photo of the correct spring please?

 

The lift rod needed no modification!  It was exactly the right length!  The blower is mounted and working perfectly!

 

 

 

 

I still need to clean up and paint the top extension, but I don't have the side extensions.  I've got a local metal shop working up a quote for me.  Hope it's not too high!!

 

Yeah, that hood could use a little paint work!  Maybe in the spring...

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

5 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

maybe I'll return all three and go to NAPA for the 69 that I believe will be a better fit.

 

I changed my mind.  The 68" belt is a much better fit than the 70", and the 69" would probably be a tad too long also.  So the 66 and the 70 are going back.

 

But now I've discovered an issue with the PTO stub shaft.  The snap ring had popped it's groove.  So I need to address that issue now.  No big deal, easy fix.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Can one of you fine gentlemen let me know the dimensions of the side extension plates please?  It appears from pictures that the straight part is about 7" or so and the bent edge is maybe 1-1/2" ?  I've got some material to fabricate them... ( 3/16 CRS )

 

I got the PTO problem all straightened out.  Chucked the stub into the drill press, sharpened the groove a bit, new snap ring with sharp side out.  While apart popped the seal on the bearing and cleaned and greased that up.  Cleaned the grease outta the roller bearing and gave that some nice fresh R&T to swim in.  Seal is fine.

 

@peter lena @pfrederi @Handy Don @Ed Kennell

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

I've gotten a quote from a local metal shop for the side extension plates.  I took a guess at the dimensions.  I don't think $50 is too much so I'm going for it.

 

I figured that since the top plate was 7" and the photos I've looked at appeared that the sides were roughly the same, I went with 8-1/2".  I asked for a 30° bend 1-1/2" in on the long edge.  If it's too long I can always cut them down.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Picking up the side extension plates tomorrow.

 

When I connect the flag to the rocker and install the blower, the lift arm for the deck has some interference with the lift rod.  Is this normal?

 

It doesn't seem to hurt anything though, just scrapes a little paint off the freshly painted lift rod.

[Handy Don 12,235]

Be sure the flag attaches on the side of the arm that keeps the lift arm and the lift rod aligned directly under each other. But yes, even then the lift arm and the lift point on the blower don't rotate in the same plane so the arm is always pushing sideways on the flag a bit (and scraping the paint).

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

36 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

the flag attaches on the side of the arm that keeps the lift arm and the lift rod aligned directly under each other

 

Thanks Don,  On my machine (C-175) that doesn't really seem possible.  There's only one way to attach the flag and when attached there's about 1/2" of 'offset' between the blower lift rod and the mower deck lift arm.

 

I think I just need to live with the scraped paint!  (no big deal!)