Tecumseh ignition

[Gregor 4,846]

After reading a couple of posts lately about Tecumseh engines using trigger pins, it left me wondering, just what ARE trigger pins, and just WHAT do they do? Are they magnets? Are they something special? No, apparently, they are neither. I still don't know exactly how the system works, but I did find an interesting video. In this video a guy replaces one of the trigger pins with a common 12-20 screw. Is the trigger coil a simple proximity switch? Here is the video for all the Tecumseh fans, (both of you). For me it raises more questions than it answers.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMvB0-DIFEo

[stevasaurus 22,765]

"both of you"  now that is funny.   I needed that...tanks.  

[wallfish 17,014]

Good one!

[Gregor 4,846]

I am on the hunt for a Tecumseh HH100, or any Tecky that uses trigger pins for ignition. I have to figure out how this thing works.

[upstateyankee50 59]

21 hours ago, Gregor said:

I am on the hunt for a Tecumseh HH100, or any Tecky that uses trigger pins for ignition. I have to figure out how this thing works.

heck for the right price you could buy mine ;I am taking a few days off from tinkering with this one ;

[Gregor 4,846]

3 minutes ago, upstateyankee50 said:

heck for the right price you could buy mine ;I am taking a few days off from tinkering with this one ;

If it were closer, I would seriously consider it.

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:55 AM, Gregor said:

After reading a couple of posts lately about Tecumseh engines using trigger pins, it left me wondering, just what ARE trigger pins, and just WHAT do they do? Are they magnets? Are they something special? No, apparently, they are neither. I still don't know exactly how the system works, but I did find an interesting video. In this video a guy replaces one of the trigger pins with a common 12-20 screw. Is the trigger coil a simple proximity switch? Here is the video for all the Tecumseh fans, (both of you). For me it raises more questions than it answers.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMvB0-DIFEo

the camera is to low to see what he is talking about as far as the trigger pins ;it might help me here with the issue I am having as far as not starting

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,050]

I remember Ed Stoller was a Sears tractor enthusiast years ago and very knowledgeable on the Tecumseh product

http://www.edstoller.com/

[upstateyankee50 59]

18 minutes ago, Gregor said:

If it were closer, I would seriously consider it.

yep that is so true  ;but I am not a quitter ;tomorrow I am going to remove the fly wheel and check the key way ;plus try to get a picture of the side where the solid state ignition sits right on top of the fly wheel ;there might be an adjustment made but I am really not sure;

[pfrederi 17,741]

5 minutes ago, upstateyankee50 said:

yep that is so true  ;but I am not a quitter ;tomorrow I am going to remove the fly wheel and check the key way ;plus try to get a picture of the side where the solid state ignition sits right on top of the fly wheel ;there might be an adjustment made but I am really not sure;

When you look at the manual it shows you how to set the air gap between the pins and the module..

[upstateyankee50 59]

35 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

I remember Ed Stoller was a Sears tractor enthusiast years ago and very knowledgeable on the Tecumseh product

http://www.edstoller.com/

thanks I will check it out 

[Gregor 4,846]

Ed Stoller is the man who made the video.

[upstateyankee50 59]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

Ed Stoller is the man who made the video.

yep thanks ;if this is of any help my daughter snapped a few pictures and this time they came though; it shows the solid state ignition right on top of the fly wheel '

[upstateyankee50 59]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

When you look at the manual it shows you how to set the air gap between the pins and the module..

thanks I will check it out ;my daughter was able to snap a few pictures of the solid state ignition system if this helps ;as I mentioned before I removed that item cleaned the bottom off rom all of the grim and dirt that was stuck to it as I thought that might had been an issue plus cleaned the pins that rotate around and are suppose to hit on the bottom of the unit though I am not sure if there is an adjustment on the clearance where the pins hit ;as I had a 12 horse with the breaker -less ignition and I was able to adjust that one 'plus it shows the small black wire that is attached to the upper left of the unit which if I am correct is for power to activate the unit 

[Gregor 4,846]

Have you located the trigger pins behind the ring gear, and checked gap?  I would also check all wiring coming form that ignition module for shorts, or breaks.

[ebinmaine 67,671]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:31 PM, Gregor said:

Ed Stoller is the man who made the video.

Here's a general description video. 

I didn't watch all the way through. Might help explain his ideas for the ignition.  

 

 

 

 

 

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/22/2021 at 6:18 PM, Gregor said:

Have you located the trigger pins behind the ring gear, and checked gap?  I would also check all wiring coming form that ignition module for shorts, or breaks.

yes I have check the trigger pins and again watched the video's that were sent but it seems that he is using a different module than what I have as he has a 15 inch cap between the long trigger pin as viewing the manual that I have  it calls for the long trigger pin to have a clearance of 006 and the short trigger pin having the clearance of 010 which I check yesterday and using the feeler gauges with the correct numbers' long pin 006 the short 010   there was play and not really tight as they should be; the thing is that I have a solid state ignition system not like the one he shows in his video ' plus the unit that I have does not allow any adjustments as there are 2 screws that are attached to the bottom  where there is no slot to move down or up'' not like a breaker -less ignition system where you can adjust ;I am not sure if the pins have been worn out and need to be replaced ;than if I have to is time to remove the fly wheel

Edited September 27, 2021 by upstateyankee50

[upstateyankee50 59]

15 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Here's a general description video. 

I didn't watch all the way through. Might help explain his ideas for the ignition.  

 

 

thank but that is not the same as the solid state ignition system that I have ;yes I watched the video's that were attached but the ignition system is so much different that what I have ;I know with a breaker -less ignition system there is a way to to adjust the air gap but with the one that I have is different as there are 2 screws that bolt the unit to the side of the head and yes I did check the air gap ;as the long trigger pins is at 006 and the short at 010 ;so doing that test I noticed a little play as they feeler gauges were not tight as they should be; so before I pull the fly wheel I would like to get the gap correct ; 

 

 

 

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/22/2021 at 3:46 PM, upstateyankee50 said:

yep that is so true  ;but I am not a quitter ;tomorrow I am going to remove the fly wheel and check the key way ;plus try to get a picture of the side where the solid state ignition sits right on top of the fly wheel ;there might be an adjustment made but I am really not sure;

here is the thing I have not removed the fly wheel as I would like to check all avenues before I pull it .so after watching the video's as far as the fly wheel needs to be removed 'again I want to to thank every one for there help and suggestions 

[Gregor 4,846]

Since first reading about this Tecumseh ignition system, I have always had the question in my mind, "Just what do the trigger pins do?" I sent that query to Dave, (can't remember his last name now), this is the answer I received.

 

I certainly am not a Tecumseh expert but I can maybe pass on some thoughts.

Somehow the electronic ignition module must get timing (actually crankshaft position) information to produce a spark at the proper time. Two common type of sensors that provide this information to the ignition module are Hall sensors and magnetic reluctance sensors.

Hall sensors sense magnetic fields. They will conduct a given amount current when no magnetic field is present and conduct a different current when they are in a magnetic field. Their output is variable depending on the strength of the magnetic field they are sensing. If the Tecumseh pins were magnetic a Hall sensor would see them approaching and send that info to the ignition module.

Reluctance sensors contain their own magnetic field. If that field is disturbed by a piece of moving iron-based metal, they will give an output. The output signal is a function of both the speed and closeness of the moving metal. If the Tecumseh pins were nonmagnetic iron based metal, as they approach, they will disturb the magnetic field of a reluctance sensor and the sensor will give an output to the ignition module.

 

Since you say that the pins on your Tecumseh are not magnetic, I would guess that the sensor that is giving crankshaft position information to your ignition module is a magnetic reluctance sensor.

 

This sums it up for me. Greg

 

Dave Cave ............ Gas Engine Magazine

Edited September 27, 2021 by Gregor

[ebinmaine 67,671]

13 minutes ago, Gregor said:

magnetic reluctance sensor

That is an excellent description!!

 

If you happen to remember who gave you that please thank them. 

 

 

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/22/2021 at 3:52 PM, pfrederi said:

When you look at the manual it shows you how to set the air gap between the pins and the module..

yes I was able to get the time to read that part and yesterday I did set the air gap ;as the long pin needs to be set at 6 the short pin at 10 ;but still it won't start 'I could be had been mislead from a guy who mentioned if I have spark it can not be the key way on the fly wheel as the key way once it travels around, the key way makes the spark that creates the spark on the solid state ignition system if I have this correct 

[upstateyankee50 59]

On 9/22/2021 at 6:18 PM, Gregor said:

Have you located the trigger pins behind the ring gear, and checked gap?  I would also check all wiring coming form that ignition module for shorts, or breaks.

yes I did find the trigger pins and adjusted them as the Manuel suggested ;the long pin set at 6 and the short pin set at 10 but still it will not start and to your next questions yes every wire was checked and they look fine ;thanks again

[Gregor 4,846]

I think it's time to bite the bullet, and remove the flywheel. CAREFULLY ! You have to check that key. IMO

[Gregor 4,846]

I'm sure you have a Harbor Freight in Springfield Mo.

https://www.harborfreight.com/gear-puller-set-15-pc-62958.html