Wheel Horse Lug Nuts torque

[mort 24]

What should the 5/8" lug nuts on a 300-400 Wheel Horse tractor be torqued at?

What grade of bolt are they?

Thanks,

Mort

[8ntruck 7,004]

I would recommend 80 lb-ft.  Usually, the lug bolts are around grade 8.  Check the bolt head.  If it has 6 radial marks, it is grade 8.  If it has 3 radial marks, it is grade 5.

Edited September 14, 2021 by 8ntruck

[roadapples 6,983]

No idea what's correct, but I only torque mine to 50...

[kpinnc 12,048]

In a 5 bolt hub, I've periodically rode around in the yard with the lugs as tight as I could get them with my bare hand- just if something needed moving. Never had one come loose yet. If one ever does, I hope someone is filming it...

 

For normal use, 80 ft-lb I think was in the manual as 8ntruck already said. I would only torque them after ensuring the threads are cleaned and lubed up with anti-sieze.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

51 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

ensuring the threads are cleaned and lubed up with anti-sieze

 

I didn't think lubing lug nut threads was recommended?

 

I use 40 ft lb and never had one come loose.

[kpinnc 12,048]

8 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I didn't think lubing lug nut threads was recommended?

 

I use 40 ft lb and never had one come loose

 

Maybe not. But I keep antisieze on all of mine and they haven't come loose in 15 years on a couple- but don't require an impact whench to break loose either.

 

I'd think 40 foot lbs would be plenty on a single unweighted wheel. If your tires are filled and you have 50lb wheel weights and duallies? 

 

I think a more important thing would be equal and even torque in any wheel. Since my tractor wheels are hub centric and never exceed 10 mph, I feel relatively safe with 40-50 foot lbs. Lug centric wheels on a highway is another story.

Edited September 14, 2021 by kpinnc

[8ntruck 7,004]

80 lb-ft assumes that the threads on the lug nuts/studs/bolts are lightly lubricated - as in the way nuts and bolts are delivered from the factory.

 

If you are adding things like anti-seize or oil to them, 40 to 50 lb-ft is better.

 

Lubrication on threads increases the tension in the bolt or stud for a given amount of tightening torque - sometimes to the point of stud or bolt failure or wheel countersink damage.

 

I spent my 40 year engineering career in the steel wheel industry learning trivia like this.

[Skipper 1,788]

Hand torque till it feels right

 

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

But just remember......"2 pieces is too tight "

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

I have a really old worn out impact that tightens up just right, absolutely no idea what it torques to, but I have used it for all my vehicles and tractors for years. No broken lugs, no missing wheels! 

 

If you are using a hand socket and ratchet, you can tighten pretty hard and be fine. A lot of us grew up working on things and you just develop a "feel" for what is the right amount of tightness. Of course, my Dad used to get on me that I didn't know my own strength and I have twisted a few bolts off in my day!!

 

I just got a new brushless dewalt 1/2" impact and I suspect I'm gonna mess a couple of things up until I figure out the proper amount of kachunka chunks!!

 

 

 

 

 

RAndy

[953 nut 55,229]

10 hours ago, mort said:

What should the 5/8" lug nuts on a 300-400 Wheel Horse tractor be torqued at?

Unless you have drilled and taped your hubs and rims for a much larger lug bolt you should be looking at torque specs for a 7/16" -20 fine thread bolt. They are grade 5 so according to the torque chart that would be 41 ft/lb of torque.

[Pullstart 62,878]

1 hour ago, Pollack Pete said:

But just remember......"2 pieces is too tight "

Turn it in until it snaps, then back it off a quarter!  

[kpinnc 12,048]

1 hour ago, RandyLittrell said:

proper amount of kachunka chunks!!

 

Oh I'm using that one from now on... 

[edgro 677]

Gudentite

[WHX?? 48,815]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:53 AM, pullstart said:

Turn it in until it snaps, then back it off a quarter!  

Me thinks Pullhosen knows all about this.! 

 

On 9/14/2021 at 5:49 AM, RandyLittrell said:

really old worn out impact that tightens up just right, absolutely no idea what it torques to,

Question here guys is can you tighten up a nut with an unknown impact torque then see what it takes to loosen it up with a wrench. Would it give a guy an idea of what an air or cordless impact is doing?  Guessing results might be skewed by air pressure or battery strength? 

[squonk 41,118]

7 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Me thinks Pullhosen knows all about this.! 

 

Question here guys is can you tighten up a nut with an unknown impact torque then see what it takes to loosen it up with a wrench. Would it give a guy an idea of what an air or cordless impact is doing?  Guessing results might be skewed by air pressure or battery strength? 

You could loosen the nut with a torque wrench. What ever torque it takes to break it loose is the torque the impact put on it. Start the reading off low and slowly increase until the fastener breaks loose.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

30 minutes ago, squonk said:

You could loosen the nut with a torque wrench. What ever torque it takes to break it loose is the torque the impact put on it. Start the reading off low and slowly increase until the fastener breaks loose.

 

I've done something like this many years ago (more than 30) using a torque wrench in both directions and as I recall the 'break loose' torque was always higher than the tightening torque.

 

It's been years since I did that and don't recall the details, but do recall that the longer the time between tight and loosen the higher the breakaway torque became (to a point).

 

If you loosened it immediately, the torque to loosen was close, but always higher.

 

I did not test with lubed parts though.

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

42 minutes ago, squonk said:

You could loosen the nut with a torque wrench. What ever torque it takes to break it loose is the torque the impact put on it. Start the reading off low and slowly increase until the fastener breaks loose.

 

I would think you could do the inverse as well, increase torque till you tighten it further. Either way should get you in the ballpark. Maybe do both and average them out.

 

 

 

Randy

[lynnmor 7,306]

While you guys are cranking down on those grade 5 & grade 8 bolts, just remember that the threaded hole might be in a softer cast iron.

[squonk 41,118]

Plus the lug is digging into the bevel on the wheel

[8ntruck 7,004]

Test procedures for the steel wheel industry for recording lug nut torque at the end of the test call for reading the torque in the tightening direction.

[ranger 1,750]

This may sound silly, but it also depends on how you use the torque wrench. I once watched an assembly line worker torquing a drive coupling plate to an engine flywheel, (VW 1.6ltr diesel). I had just finished replacing a damaged engine in a small road sweeper the company manufactures. Every bolt, (M8x1.25, 8.8 grade), snapped whilst being torqued. Getting new bolts from the production line, same results, torque wrench tested ok. Asked the worker if he had any problems? Answer “No”, I watched as he tightened a set of bolts. As each bolt appeared to become tight he gave a sharp ‘jerk’ with the wrench, rather than a steady pull, which caused it to ‘click’, supposedly  indicating correct torque? Taking the torque wrench I then slowly ‘re-torqued’ each bolt, with a steady pull, each one snapped! A whole delivery of nuts and bolts were returned to the platers due to ‘Hydrogen Embrittlement’, ( incorrect after treatment following plating). I have often seen tyre fitters use a torque wrench the exact same way he did!

Doug.

[8ntruck 7,004]

@ranger I sure hope that the engines that were assembled with the faculty bolts were quarrenetened and corrected before getting out to the customer.

[ranger 1,750]

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

@ranger I sure hope that the engines that were assembled with the faculty bolts were quarrenetened and corrected before getting out to the customer.

I don’t know if any completed machines had power trains split to renew the suspect fasteners, I doubt it. I personally never had to rectify any failures out in the field. These particular bolts held the transmission coupling drive plate to the flywheel, imagine clutch pressure plate in a manual transmission setup. So no big upset if they failed, the machine in question was a 4 ton gross weight compact road sweeper with a max speed of 16mph. As an aside, we tried marketing these machines in the USA in the 1980s but could not guarantee that the machine could carry on working with minimal damage after being driven at max speed into a wall, or other ‘immovable’ object! (These questions were actually put to our sales personnel). Needless to say we didn’t continue to pursue this marketing opportunity!

Doug.

[Charbs152 254]

A few ugga duggas on the 1/4 inch Milwaukee impact driver works