Atomic Babe

[ebinmaine 67,397]

3 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

It's not to often I say this but.....I think I give up. This Wisconsin has won. I have tried everything once,twice probably 3 times. It's has fire,gas and compression. I know it has got to be a timing issue but I'm just not seeing it. It maybe a 2 cyl., I even tried narrowing it down to just getting it to run on 1 cylinder. Still no go.😔😔

 

Stuck between a rock and a hard place. At this moment I refuse to repower it. It just ain't right. 

 

Step back a bit and mull it over. 

@diesel cowboy or someone else may come up with things to check. 

 

[Oldskool 6,643]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Step back a bit and mull it over. 

@diesel cowboy or someone else may come up with things to check. 

 

4.5 hrs of messing with it this morning all I have is a sore wrist.

It won't even kick with a spray. All I get is a blud (technical term) sound lol.

It's more stubborn then I am lol.

[ebinmaine 67,397]

40 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

4.5 hrs of messing with it this morning all I have is a sore wrist.

It won't even kick with a spray. All I get is a blud (technical term) sound lol.

It's more stubborn then I am lol.

Damn. 

[diesel cowboy 263]

I'm starting to wonder if maybe the mag might be weak or the impulse inside is bad/stuck.  If you tried it with the plug wires side by side and used carb. cleaner/ether/gas down the plug hole or in the carb and it doesn't really pop that could be the issue.  What does the spark look like?  It should be a bright blue and be able to jump 1/4-1/2 inch at least from the end of the wire to ground. 

 

Ran into that  a couple years ago on a mag off a Farmall.  He messed with it for almost a year before asking me to look at it.  After checking everything over and adjusting the valves and timing it still wouldn't run even though it had spark. Swapped in a distributor and it fired and ran on the second turn of the crank.  Turns out the coil in it was going bad and would spark on a plug laid against the block or tester but wasn't enough to fire under compression

[Oldskool 6,643]

47 minutes ago, diesel cowboy said:

I'm starting to wonder if maybe the mag might be weak or the impulse inside is bad/stuck.  If you tried it with the plug wires side by side and used carb. cleaner/ether/gas down the plug hole or in the carb and it doesn't really pop that could be the issue.  What does the spark look like?  It should be a bright blue and be able to jump 1/4-1/2 inch at least from the end of the wire to ground. 

 

Ran into that  a couple years ago on a mag off a Farmall.  He messed with it for almost a year before asking me to look at it.  After checking everything over and adjusting the valves and timing it still wouldn't run even though it had spark. Swapped in a distributor and it fired and ran on the second turn of the crank.  Turns out the coil in it was going bad and would spark on a plug laid against the block or tester but wasn't enough to fire under compression

Maybe weak. It's tuff to hand crank it and see what I have for spark exactly. It looked good thru an inline tester.

 

The impulse you mentioned if that's the click I hear, that seems to work fine to me, but not 100% sure.

 

I just bought 2 new plugs and will check again later when I get home.

I went on a search locally for another mag but haven't found one yet.

 

I'm not giving up yet , I guess

[Handy Don 12,204]

8 hours ago, Oldskool said:

I'm not giving up yet , I guess

Never doubted it.

[diesel cowboy 263]

9 hours ago, Oldskool said:

Maybe weak. It's tuff to hand crank it and see what I have for spark exactly. It looked good thru an inline tester.

 

The impulse you mentioned if that's the click I hear, that seems to work fine to me, but not 100% sure.

 

I just bought 2 new plugs and will check again later when I get home.

I went on a search locally for another mag but haven't found one yet.

 

I'm not giving up yet , I guess

The inline testers are good for the newer engines but on the old one can give a false reading.  The best ones to use on them are the old ones that let you see the spark when it jumps so you can tell what color and how thick it is.

 

The impulse would be that click when it turns over.  Basically when the engine is turning over at slow speed there's a latch inside that stops the rotor from turning for a bit to wind up a spring.  When it gets to the right spot the latch trips allowing the spring tension to unwind and move the shaft inside that the rotor is attached to fast enough to create the spark. 

[Oldskool 6,643]

9 hours ago, diesel cowboy said:

The inline testers are good for the newer engines but on the old one can give a false reading.  The best ones to use on them are the old ones that let you see the spark when it jumps so you can tell what color and how thick it is.

This is the tester I was using. 

 

I'm going to go thru things one more time this morning. 

Clean and re-gap the points and re-time.

If I can't get it to fire this morning I will unfortunately have to move on to other things.

I did cycle each cylinder stopping at each valve movement and blew compressed air in to see if there was a blockage or any sort keeping the gas from getting in. While doing this I did notice some air coming out thru my bowl gasket which tells me the Zenith carb is a bit warped. 

 

So now with an air leak and possibly a weak coil I feel I'm just banging my head off the wall.

[Oldskool 6,643]

@diesel cowboy any thoughts of why my points have full continuity when the contacts are open? I'm thinking this is a good part of my problem.

[ebinmaine 67,397]

@T-Mo

@pfrederi

@953 nut

 

Any hints or who else to ask?

 

[diesel cowboy 263]

Yeah that's probably a big part of the problem.  Nothing looks out of place to me on how the points are setup, so I wonder if one of the wires running up behind the coil might have a tiny hole in the covering that's causing it to bleed part of the spark to the case.  Ran into something like that years ago on one of my Farmalls.  The plug wires on that ran through a long tube around the engine and when cranking it there'd be weak erratic spark at the plugs.  Finally found that when it bit me when I had someone else crank it and I had my hand on the tube trying to adjust the mag.  It was sparking out of the tube to the block

[Handy Don 12,204]

[Oldskool 6,643]

7 hours ago, diesel cowboy said:

Yeah that's probably a big part of the problem.  Nothing looks out of place to me on how the points are setup, so I wonder if one of the wires running up behind the coil might have a tiny hole in the covering that's causing it to bleed part of the spark to the case.  Ran into something like that years ago on one of my Farmalls.  The plug wires on that ran through a long tube around the engine and when cranking it there'd be weak erratic spark at the plugs.  Finally found that when it bit me when I had someone else crank it and I had my hand on the tube trying to adjust the mag.  It was sparking out of the tube to the block

I had a chance last night to mess with it a bit after dark. All the wires look good. I do have spark. It's very intermittent to none. Yellow to blue. I also noticed some slop at the pivot point of the fiber arm of the points. I ordered new points and condenser last night. Do you know what the coil should test out at with an analog multimeter?

[Oldskool 6,643]

7 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I showed that pic to a friend that thought the same thing. The points are actually outside the housing. 

[ebinmaine 67,397]

Plenty of space where that bolts onto on the inside?

[Oldskool 6,643]

10 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Plenty of space where that bolts onto on the inside?

When the cap goes on?

[ebinmaine 67,397]

26 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

When the cap goes on?

I assume so? But then I got thinking you're probably bench testing that off of the tractor so it doesn't matter...

[Oldskool 6,643]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I assume so? But then I got thinking you're probably bench testing that off of the tractor so it doesn't matter...

Yes , I am bench testing it. I'm getting a better feel of how this all works now

 

[ebinmaine 67,397]

1 minute ago, Oldskool said:

Yes , I am bench testing it. I'm getting a better feel of how this all works now

 

Learning something new. Excellent.

 

[Handy Don 12,204]

3 hours ago, Oldskool said:

The points are actually outside the housing.

Thanks! Got fooled by the perspective.

(Was hoping for an easy solution, rats! )

[Oldskool 6,643]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Thanks! Got fooled by the perspective.

(Was hoping for an easy solution, rats! )

I was hoping for an easy solution too. Nothing has been easy on this at all. If I can't get it before long it may just get a Kohler transplant.

[diesel cowboy 263]

7 hours ago, Oldskool said:

I had a chance last night to mess with it a bit after dark. All the wires look good. I do have spark. It's very intermittent to none. Yellow to blue. I also noticed some slop at the pivot point of the fiber arm of the points. I ordered new points and condenser last night. Do you know what the coil should test out at with an analog multimeter?

I don't know how the coil should test out and the only thing I can find in my books is the condenser should test at .20 MFD +/- 10%

I finally had a chance to ask my dad and showed him the pictures and he pointed out the condenser wire looks like it might've been pinched 

If it was and there's a spot on the back side you might not be able to see or hear the spark jumping, plus it's touching the mounting plate and could cause it to have continuity when the points are open.  He also said that any dirt/dust build up in the cap or mag body will let it arc internally and might not be visible 

[Oldskool 6,643]

1 hour ago, diesel cowboy said:

I don't know how the coil should test out and the only thing I can find in my books is the condenser should test at .20 MFD +/- 10%

I finally had a chance to ask my dad and showed him the pictures and he pointed out the condenser wire looks like it might've been pinched 

If it was and there's a spot on the back side you might not be able to see or hear the spark jumping, plus it's touching the mounting plate and could cause it to have continuity when the points are open.  He also said that any dirt/dust build up in the cap or mag body will let it arc internally and might not be visible 

I'll check out that pinch point after work today. I did try blowing any dirt, dust, debris out of the body. It seemed quite clean. As far as the spark goes, I was testing it in the dark so I could see. I didn't see any elsewhere but I'm not saying there wasn't any. I'm hoping to have the new points and condenser  by the weekend.

[oldiron613 583]

Nice find! That's either a Garvar or Atomic Babe model B. Assuming the 2 cylinder Wisconsin TF engine is original to the tractor, it wouldn't be a Haney. 

 

The engine dates to 1948 so it very well could be original. To my knowledge, the tractors themselves did not have any ID tag, nor were serial numbered so the best way to date them is by the Wisconsin engine. 

 

Good luck getting it operational! Again, great find. 

 

Rob

[Oldskool 6,643]

4 hours ago, oldiron613 said:

Nice find! That's either a Garvar or Atomic Babe model B. Assuming the 2 cylinder Wisconsin TF engine is original to the tractor, it wouldn't be a Haney. 

 

The engine dates to 1948 so it very well could be original. To my knowledge, the tractors themselves did not have any ID tag, nor were serial numbered so the best way to date them is by the Wisconsin engine. 

 

Good luck getting it operational! Again, great find. 

 

Rob

Thanks Rob. 

I'm still guessing AB model B. It has Doylestown embossed on the rear housings in 3 different places.

If I can get past the magneto being a pain in my neck I might just get it going.