K301

[JimSraj 444]

Been working on a K301, that broke a rod, from a late 60s Raider. Honed the cylinder, lapped the valves and reinstalled them. You know Advance Auto will let you borrow (gotta leave an $88 deposit), for 45 days a spring compressor tool. Deposit refunded when you bring it back. Those keepers set a little bit of fun to get back in. A little dab of grease will do ya. Anyway reset the gaps and cleaned up and flattened the head on some 600 grit paper.  Gonna measure the cylinder bore and crank journal tomorrow. Hope to order parts so I can get it back together soon. 

[ebinmaine 68,734]

Sounds like you're making good progress. 

Good reminder on the tool program. 

 

Remember us "kids" love to see pics...

[rmaynard 15,698]

9 hours ago, JimSraj said:

Honed the cylinder...  Gonna measure the cylinder bore...

 

Curious why you honed the cylinder before you measured it. 

 

Advanced Auto Parts has a good program there. However, I have "rented" their gear puller 3 times over the last 5 years. Each time when I return it I tell them that some of the bolts are bent. Each time I get it again, it still has the same bent bolts. So be careful and inspect the tool before you leave the store.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by rmaynard

[953 nut 56,087]

9 hours ago, JimSraj said:

 Gonna measure the cylinder bore and crank journal tomorrow. Hope to order parts so I can get it back together soon. 

You would be best off taking the block and crank to an engine rebuilder for proper measurements. Here is a quick way to see how far your cylinder may need to be cut.

 

[JimSraj 444]

I guess I honed the cylinder before measuring it bc I’ve never done this before and got ahead of myself. 

Im gonna try the ring end gap and feeler gauge technique. Thanks for that. 

[squonk 41,590]

Unless you have a micrometer and a dial bore gauge, you can't get an accurate measurement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JimSraj 444]

Micrometer, yes. Bore gauge, yes. Dial, I wish. 

[richmondred01 2,266]

23 hours ago, squonk said:

Unless you have a micrometer and a dial bore gauge, you can't get an accurate measurement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Squonk is 100 percent right. It’s a waste of time and money to do anything else. Also, mic the crank and the valve guides. 
most of these old engines have 1000 hours plus and they are worn. Putting a new piston, rings and rod won’t correct the problem until it’s within spec.

 

 

[JimSraj 444]

Finally able to get back to it and got the crank out and mic’d. As expected it needs to be machined to .010 under. As best I can tell, after about 15 sets of bore gauge and mic readings, the cylinder looks to be at the limit, but in spec. I’m think of having it bored anyway since I’m taking the crank. Thoughts on that?  Also, I’m assuming I need to have the block stripped of camshaft and all internals for the machining. As I said before, I’ve never done this before so some of my questions may have obvious answers to you more experienced mechanics. 

[ebinmaine 68,734]

8 hours ago, JimSraj said:

having it bored anyway since I’m taking the crank. Thoughts on that?

Two schools of thought on this one. 

To me it would depend on the intended usage of the tractor. 

 

There are those who would say if it's in spec leave it. If it ain't broke don't fix it. 

 

Most (I think) would say the right answer overall is to have it it bored, yes. 

You're there. It's mostly apart. 

For parts you already need a rod and rings so the only extra would be a piston. 

 

That said... Is this going to be a working engine or a show only/drag the kids around in a trailer rig?

That won't work the engine very hard....

[953 nut 56,087]

10 hours ago, JimSraj said:

As I said before, I’ve never done this before so some of my questions may have obvious answers to you more experienced mechanics.

None of us were born knowing anything, we have all learned from others. Unlike the majority of the population you are smart enough to ask first rather than throwing money away and ending up with poor results.     

@prondzy did an excellent thread on engine rebuilding, enjoy. 

 

[richmondred01 2,266]

953nut is 100% correct. All of us learned from someone, or made mistakes getting there and learned from that.

Don’t reinvent the wheel. Just ask. There’s a lot of very experienced and good people on this forum.

You may get different options but like a GPS it will still get you there just a different route. 

[squonk 41,590]

If it's worn to it's limit, it won't be long before it's past the limit. Get it bored.

[clueless 3,012]

30 minutes ago, squonk said:

If it's worn to it's limit, it won't be long before it's past the limit. Get it bored.

It's a Kohler K engine, do the right thing the first time. You won't have to worry about it for the next 30 years.

[JimSraj 444]

You have all confirmed my gut feeling so I’ll have it bored. Next question is do I need to remove the cam and all of the rest of the internal engine or can it be done with them in place without getting metal bits where they will cause trouble ?

[ebinmaine 68,734]

7 minutes ago, JimSraj said:

do I need to remove the cam and all of the rest of the internal engine or can it be done with them in place without getting metal bits where they will cause trouble ?

In a way you've answered the question. 

 

It should be emptied to avoid issues.  

 

 

[JimSraj 444]

Again you have confirmed what I thought. I was hoping to avoid getting farther into things I have no experience in but looks like I’m gonna get some. 

[richmondred01 2,266]

Take them all the way down. I didn’t have a bear block photo this one I’ve installed the main bearing and governor.

[ebinmaine 68,734]

8 minutes ago, JimSraj said:

Again you have confirmed what I thought. I was hoping to avoid getting farther into things I have no experience in but looks like I’m gonna get some. 

That's another great way to learn. 

[oliver2-44 9,901]

Use the disassembly section in the Kohler manual.  When driving out the cam shaft pin one end of it is tapered so you need to only drive it out one direction.  Sorry I don't remember the direction, but its in the manual.  You can break the block if you drive it the wrong way. 

[squonk 41,590]

7 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Use the disassembly section in the Kohler manual.  When driving out the cam shaft pin one end of it is tapered so you need to only drive it out one direction.  Sorry I don't remember the direction, but its in the manual.  You can break the block if you drive it the wrong way. 

Drive it toward the flywheel side.

[richmondred01 2,266]

Use a feeler gauge and measure the cam clearance first so you know what you are starting with.

Dont loose the shims for the cam because you will need to re install them.

I also label the Intake and exhaust tappets prior to removal. 

[Fordiesel69 263]

Also, please order the parts BEFORE having the machineist cut any material.  The specs in the kohler manual is not how genuine parts or for that matter aftermarket parts are made.  I have used a crummy machinest that will bore the cylinder to "factory specs", and cut the connecting rod journal down to .010 undersized factory spec and when the parts arrive they are a loose as an old worn out engine.  The machinest may need to measure your new parts and adapt his boring specs and rod journal specs accordingly.  Ive had to get the rods resized on many of them as they needed to be cut .013 or .014 under.  

[richmondred01 2,266]

49 minutes ago, Fordiesel69 said:

Also, please order the parts BEFORE having the machineist cut any material.  The specs in the kohler manual is not how genuine parts or for that matter aftermarket parts are made.  I have used a crummy machinest that will bore the cylinder to "factory specs", and cut the connecting rod journal down to .010 undersized factory spec and when the parts arrive they are a loose as an old worn out engine.  The machinest may need to measure your new parts and adapt his boring specs and rod journal specs accordingly.  Ive had to get the rods resized on many of them as they needed to be cut .013 or .014 under.  

Excellent point.

Some suppliers that folks use on this forum their specs are off out of the box. 
Ive had several people that have ordered parts from from eBay and from the web that were sub standard. 

 

[Fordiesel69 263]

So to my next point, inspect the metalurgy.  I have found that rotary / stens parts as well as a company called SBC have excellent metalurgy when I was rebuilding back in 2011 and 2012.  Even though the specs were off, the finish and quality were as good as genuine.  Especially SBC connecting rods.  They were as close as  I could tell 100% duplicates.  Some other chinese kits I bought for a H60 techumseh had very spotty as porus castings in there rods and pistons, and was hesitant to use them.  

 

So bottom line is there is no worries if the specs are off as long as the part is machined appropriatly for it.