The horse is dead...Long live the horse!

[ebinmaine 67,602]

51 minutes ago, vogli said:

@ebinmaine Who is the "Lowell" of which thou speakest? Is this the wheelhorse parts & more gentleman? I've been looking at the kits there.

Yessir that's exactly right. 

Good people.  

[vogli 86]

OK, so, according to the manual, I'm to move the 2nd/high shift fork in the 2nd gear position so that I can remove the cluster gear....but that's the problem. I can't shift. Neither shift fork will move up or down, as far as I can tell, and I'm hesitant to apply too much pressure. I am also uncertain that the high/low is in gear. I put the high/low lever back on, and I'm not able to move it either way.

 

I can't really see the forks for the high/low selector, so I'm not certain what it is doing.

[ebinmaine 67,602]

It takes a fair bit of leverage to move dirty parts. 

 

You may want to spend some time spraying cleaner in/on/around then try again.  

 

 

[vogli 86]

@ebinmaine Yeah, I sprayed some wd-40 on, let it sit, and then gently applied some pressure. I promise it wasn't quite as bad as it looks...

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,602]

Judging by the groove apparent in the circle, the left fork should be able to go down a notch. 

The blue lines should be aligned. 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,602]

A light tap of a small hammer may help. 

[vogli 86]

Yeah, it's in second gear, in that picture. I needed to put it in 2nd to remove the cluster gear.

 

So I have the whole brake shaft assembly out, and am looking at the input rail. Instructions say to us "a screwdriver or suitable tool" to remove the detent passage plug. I'm really not seeing what I'm supposed to do with that. I was kinda expecting to see a threaded plug I could remove with an allen wrench, or a slotted for removal with a flat-head screwdriver. Instead...it just looks flat. What is it I'm removing, and what is the "suitable tool"?

 

 

[oliver2-44 9,759]

Your removing a sheet metal Welch plug. 

[vogli 86]

OK, all apart:

 

 

Except for the detent spring/ball thing. Gotta figure that out yet.

 

 

At least one pin bearing needs replaced...

 

[ebinmaine 67,602]

17 minutes ago, vogli said:

detent spring/ball thing

No worries. You're in fine shape.  

 

See the pic. 

 

You may have a metal plug as mentioned. If so scrape around the edge where the red line is and you'll be able to see it. 

That will likely want to to be drilled with a small bit then put a small screw in it to use as a puller with a pair of vice grips. 

 

Or:

 

I've seen several with a blob of silicone in there. 

Stick a pick or small screwdriver where the blue X is and waggle it around. The silicone will scrape out. 

 

 

 

 

 

Where's the bad bearing from?

 

 

[vogli 86]

The bad bearing is the outer axle one, on the shallow side.

 

I'm guessing I should probably get a full rebuild kit. The main ball bearing on both sides seem stuck - I can't move the inner part, grabbing it with my finger, and trying to pull it round. The one I mentioned had all the pins fall out, and there are others where the pins look slanted - they can't be rolling properly on the shaft. Others, I can't seem to move the pins with my finger...and some seem just fine.

 

My plug is definitely metal. So, I'll try the drill + screw approach.

[stevasaurus 22,764]

You need to remove that plug to get the spring and bar in the spring out.  It is a 1/4" hole.  Once you get those parts out, take a 1/4" drill bit and clean out that passage.  You should be able to turn the drill bit by hand.  You know, now that you have the shift rails out, you could use a punch and tap that plug into where the shift rail goes.    You will not be putting a welch plug back in, a dab of bearing grease of silicone caulk will close the hole.

[vogli 86]

Yep. Got it! Thanks guys.

 

I'm probably going to get things soaking, and then hang up the wrench for the weekend. Will update this thread when the adventure continues!!

[ebinmaine 67,602]

1 hour ago, vogli said:

I should probably get a full rebuild kit

 

I'd say that's the best idea. 

 

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

plug

 

Were those always metal from the factory?

 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

I think so, but like I said, a little dab of caulk will seal it. It's hard for oil to seep there without any seal.  The shift rail blocks the hole, and the hole is up at the top of the transmission.  Plus, that hole mounts against the frame.   

[vogli 86]

Alright, so I have the differential apart.

 

 

Just gunk, just like everything else

 

There was some play in the axles in the differential housing. Not in/out, that I noticed, but . Is there supposed to be some bushing or bearing there? Anyway there didn't seem to be any undue wear on the axle there, so I assume that's OK.

 

There was some wear on the central spring-ring or whatever you call it, where it came into contact with the gears, but it didn't seem excessive. It still seemed plenty tight.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by vogli

[vogli 86]

So, I'm working at cleaning the other bits. Soaked them in gasoline overnight, cleaned the major gunk off with a toothbrush. Then tonight I took a steel brush to them to take off any real rust, and remaining dirt, while enjoying my weekly beer.

 

 

So, out of curiosity, what do you all use to clean this sort of stuff? Or, more broadly, what is the Right Way (TM) to clean?

[ebinmaine 67,602]

6 hours ago, vogli said:

central spring-ring

I'd replace that while you're already there. Keep it as a spare. 

 

I use diesel fuel or any degreaser to remove the crud. 

I do NOT use gasoline because it is too volatile. 

 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Diesel or Kerosene and a wire brush or a wire wheel (4" grinder) works good.  Sand blasting with plastic pellets works excellent, but is not necessary.  Lowell has those springs and I agree with Eric...replace it.  Nice job, taking the trans apart, and from what we can see, all the gears look fine.    Your differential is fine, but you should have found 2 thrust washers...one on each axle.

[stevasaurus 22,764]

BTW, you have the 10 pinion Limited Slip transmission there.  It appears to be a #5071...cast iron endplates.  Here is the thread for that transmission.  The main difference is the differential from the #5091 thread from before.

 

 

[WHX?? 48,828]

Sounds like the guys have you covered on the tech side of things so I'll just give you a little inspiration...... 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by WHX??

[vogli 86]

@WHX?? Wow. That's quite the turnaround Thanks for the inspiration! Did you sandblast the case?

 

It also reminds me...I need to come up with a puller for those internal bearings. Looks like harbor freight has something...but maybe too big for some of these small needle bearings. Suggestions?

[ebinmaine 67,602]

2 hours ago, vogli said:

Suggestions?

 

@WHX?? Got any pics of the end of your puller?

 

I've only had to replace a couple bearings that weren't wheel bearings. 

I had ok luck just driving them right straight through with a kit owned by @OldWorkHorse Steve. 

[vogli 86]

OK, so I got my transmission parts today. Unfortunately, I've not decided exactly what to do about pulling bearings. The local autozone/advance auto/o'reilly's have pullers for rent, but they are the big, slide-hammer type only. The puller end has only 2 arms on it, and is only suitable for large bushings/bearings. Some of these bearings are 5/8" or so, and really don't seem suited to the slide-hammer approach, but what do I know?

 

Apart from the bearings at the end of the cluster gear rail, and the big bearings on both end of the axle...there are these, on both ends of the spline gear:

 

These bearing needles appear to be slanted, instead of parallel to the rail it encircles. Anyway, so it seems like those should be replaced, but hopefully it's clear from the picture how those are almost flush with the inside of the gear, and there's such a small lip to pull on. They've got me worried a bit.

 

Anyway, I've ordered some cheap puller kit from amazon that looks alot like like @WHX?? is using above. Hopefully it works.

[stevasaurus 22,764]

That little bearing is a tough one, but if you look, the bearing is not bottomed out...so the puller can get under it.  Put the new one in flush at the top, like the old one.  The ones I have had to get out were in worse shape then yours.  I could use a small screw driver to hammer in between the bearing race and the gear and rip the metal to collapse the race and then it pulls out with a needle nose plyers.  You'll like that little kit you are buying...it works great.  If you are replacing any "cap" bearings, you can just tap them out with some kind of arbor or a good punch and ball peen hammer.  A 1/2" drive socket the right size makes a good arbor...use an extension from the inside of the socket and tap on the extension.  

   Another neat trick, when putting in the new bearings...put them in the freezer for a couple of days.  The contraction makes insertion easier.  A little 3 in 1 oil work great here also.