repowering a 520-H

[Snoopy11 5,714]

11 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Me personally- I would look closely at that Onan before replacing it. That being said:

 

There are plenty of engines out there that are good candidates for a repower. Pros/ cons discussions can go on forever if you ask for them.

 

If you're mechanically inclined with any imagination whatsoever, you can repower with most anything of similar HP rating. If you can spare some time, you will likely find a Onan P220 on local classifieds or Craigslist. Maybe even Ebay. Again, your ability to repair engines can affect how successful such an endeavor can be. 

 

"New" engines are almost as much of a gamble these days as a used one. At least older engines were rebuildable. Only a few new ones have parts and access to them. Some do have a large aftermarket of parts, and if you look around- likely there are forums than can be helpful if you need them.

 

Regardless which path you decide on, there will be some expense and work involved. Even a direct swap with another Onan can be a full day of work. 4 bolts, a couple simple electrical connections, the PTO linkage and finally the belt and sheetmetal is still a bit of work. Plus an Onan is one heavy chunk of metal. Buy a buddy some beer and have him help moving the engine around. Your back will thank you later. 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. A 520-H is definitely worth saving. You can't replace a machine like that anymore. 

 

The thing I like about the Duromax engine is that they are serviceable by Duromax professionals, if that is what you desire. And, they are willing to replace the engine under warranty if no modifications are done to it.

 

Just another thought...

 

Don

[kpinnc 12,026]

The Duromax 23 V twin seems like a decent engine, but it is confusing to say the least. The website says it does not have an oil pump or pressurized lubrication, and yet it requires an oil filter. For what?

 

3 year warranty is a plus. Claims to have full ball bearing supported crank. Seems to be a solid and compact design- Much like a Vanguard. I imagine there is some cloning at work here. Unfortunately there don't appear to be any parts digrams available to verify any of the specs on the website. I imagine there are places online that can confirm things though.

 

I will say that I have a Honda clone on my kid's gokart that is 18 years old and still starts on the first pull, and doesn't burn oil. I have no idea what Chenglish company distributed it, but it's been a good one.

Edited August 12, 2021 by kpinnc

[slim67 2,735]

45 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Me personally- I would look closely at that Onan before replacing it. That being said:

 

There are plenty of engines out there that are good candidates for a repower. Pros/ cons discussions can go on forever if you ask for them.

 

If you're mechanically inclined with any imagination whatsoever, you can repower with most anything of similar HP rating. If you can spare some time, you will likely find a Onan P220 on local classifieds or Craigslist. Maybe even Ebay. Again, your ability to repair engines can affect how successful such an endeavor can be. 

 

"New" engines are almost as much of a gamble these days as a used one. At least older engines were rebuildable. Only a few new ones have parts and access to them. Some do have a large aftermarket of parts, and if you look around- likely there are forums than can be helpful if you need them.

 

Regardless which path you decide on, there will be some expense and work involved. Even a direct swap with another Onan can be a full day of work. 4 bolts, a couple simple electrical connections, the PTO linkage and finally the belt and sheetmetal is still a bit of work. Plus an Onan is one heavy chunk of metal. Buy a buddy some beer and have him help moving the engine around. Your back will thank you later. 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. A 520-H is definitely worth saving. You can't replace a machine like that anymore. 

I agree with you except on the clone motor part. The clones are copies of the GX series Honda’s. The GX series have been and are immensely popular. I see them in everything and they last a long time and are very simple. I doubt the clones are exactly the same quality but can’t prove that either. Unless you’re a die hard purist , I can’t see spending a ton of money on these old engines. I’m ready to scrap an old HH100 because a coil , if you can find one, cost as much as my Predator. The well is going to be drying up for NOS and replacement parts on the old flatheads. I’ve got an Kohler in a machine right now with a bad rod. How much is that going to take to get back into running shape if even possible?

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 minute ago, kpinnc said:

The Duromax 23 V twin seems like a decent engine, but it is confusing to say the least. The website says it does not have an oil pump or pressurized lubrication, and yet it requires an oil filter. For what?

 

3 year warranty is a plus. Claims to have full ball bearing supported crank. Seems to be a solid and compact design- Much like a Vanguard. Unfortunately there don't appear to be any parts digrams available to verify any of the specs on the website. I imagine there are places online that can confirm things though.

 

I will say that I have a Honda clone on my kid's gokart that is 18 years old and still starts on the first pull, and doesn't burn oil. I have no idea what Chenglish company distributed it, but it's been a good one.

Duromax v twin does have oil pump and oil cooler with stainless steel needle bearing supported crank. 

 

 

Don

[kpinnc 12,026]

1 hour ago, slim67 said:

Unless you’re a die hard purist , I can’t see spending a ton of money on these old engines. I’m ready to scrap an old HH100 because a coil , if you can find one, cost as much as my Predator. The well is going to be drying up for NOS and replacement parts on the old flatheads. I’ve got an Kohler in a machine right now with a bad rod. How much is that going to take to get back into running shape if even possible?

 

It depends on what you're doing and with what brand of engine. Techumseh parts were hard to get 20 years ago. Onan is more expensive- primarily because you have to buy two of everything if you can find it. Kohler K series and Magnum still have parts, and a huge aftermarket to boot. Not in total disagreement with you, just refining a broad stroke remark.

 

I'm partial to Vanguards- but some are far better than others, and application dictates some research into which one works best. The small block horizontal 14-23 hp have ball bearings on the PTO and are great. The vertical shaft have no bearings. The 810cc are good on ZTRs if vertical shaft. The big block 28-40 hp are reported to be good but I've never owned one. Hondas were once great, but are being built cheaper every day. I agree with you on the GX series. If anything, clones benefit from copying a solid design. Most Chinese built engines can be decent, but I won't use one until completing a great deal of research. New Kohlers are throw away engines, even some of the Command line just aren't built to last. I have a CV15 and a CH15, and both still run. Not great, but they run.

 

Again, do your homework. If you want longevity in an engine, look at the classifieds and see what still works 10 years after it was built. I won't always buy new, but it's telling what is still running on the used market.

Edited August 12, 2021 by kpinnc

[slim67 2,735]

1 minute ago, kpinnc said:

 

It depends on what you're doing and with what brand of engine. Techumseh parts were hard to get 20 years ago. Onan is more expensive- primarily because you have to buy two of everything if you can find it. Kohler K series and Magnum still have parts, and a huge aftermarket to boot. Not in total disagreement with you, just refining a broad stroke remark.

 

I'm partial to Vanguards- but some are far better than others, and application dictates some research into which one works best. The small block horizontal 14-23 hp have ball bearings on the PTO and are great. The vertical shaft have no bearings. The 810cc are good on ZTRs if vertical shaft. The big block 28-40 hp are reported to be good but I've never owned one. Hondas were once great, but are being built cheaper every day. I agree with you on the GX series. If anything, clones benefit from copying a solid design. Most Chinese built engines can be decent, but I won't use one until completing a great deal of research. New Kohlers are throw away engines, even some of the Command line just aren't built to last. 

 

Again, do your homework. If you want longevity in an engine, look at the classifieds and see what still works 10 years after it was built. I won't always buy new, but it's telling what is still running on the used market.

That’s my point about Honda’s, been around forever and so good they are being copied. That’s good that kohler has a huge aftermarket but what kind of money for parts? I haven’t seen kohlers on anything for a long time. On our ZTRs the choices were Kawasaki and vanguards. Even Subaru has a good little engine I’m starting to see more of. I go by what I see on most commercial and rental equipment. The vanguards definitely have a lot of performance parts though. You have a lot of good points on your side of the discussion.

[kpinnc 12,026]

1 minute ago, slim67 said:

That’s good that kohler has a huge aftermarket but what kind of money for parts? I haven’t seen kohlers on anything for a long time. On our ZTRs the choices were Kawasaki and vanguards. Even Subaru has a good little engine I’m starting to see more of. I go by what I see on most commercial and rental equipment. The vanguards definitely have a lot of performance parts though. You have a lot of good points on your side of the discussion.

 

Quite a few Kohler parts houses online. Napa still carries parts too, or did recently.

 

I repowered my Scag with a Vanguard 810 (26hp). It's the only time in my life that I bought a new engine, and I did so because of the commercial warranty- and like you said because so many were showing up on commercial equipment.

 

I'm going to stop now. I dun hijacked another thread...

[slim67 2,735]

1 minute ago, kpinnc said:

 

Quite a few Kohler parts houses online. Napa still carries parts too, or did recently.

 

I repowered my Scag with a Vanguard 810 (26hp). It's the only time in my life that I bought a new engine, and I did so because of the commercial warranty- and like you said because so many were showing up on commercial equipment.

 

I'm going to stop now. I dun hijacked another thread...

We had a vanguard powered Scag, ran better than the Kawasakis

[tom2p 2,394]

8 hours ago, DoctorHfuhruhurr said:

I'd cram in the biggest smokiest diesel I could find but I'm a rebel. 

and a Juilliard trained dermatologist !

 

[fishingstar 17]

so I found a shop that that knows how to work on onans. This will be better in the long run because I would like to keep it the way it originally manufactured.

[kpinnc 12,026]

1 hour ago, fishingstar said:

so I found a shop that that knows how to work on onans. This will be better in the long run because I would like to keep it the way it originally manufactured.

 

...And that is the best option! Good luck and keep us posted!

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

12 hours ago, fishingstar said:

so I found a shop that that knows how to work on onans. This will be better in the long run because I would like to keep it the way it originally manufactured.

Damn the torpedoes !.... Full steam ahead !

[Handy Don 12,218]

1 minute ago, Horse Newbie said:

Damn the torpedoes !.... Full steam ahead !

Torpedos? Amphibious horses navigating in dangerous waters? Good Luck! 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

23 hours ago, fishingstar said:

so I found a shop that that knows how to work on onans. This will be better in the long run because I would like to keep it the way it originally manufactured.

Dude... you made us go through all that for nothing? 

 

Just kidding...  I enjoy running my mouth...

 

Don

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Glad your gonna try and save the Onan. Honestly when I check classified adds any horse that is repowered is skipped over. To my way of thinking a 520 in excellent condition, with a blown engine is worth 500 bucks. Throw a predator in it and it’s still worth 500 bucks. JMHO.

[Handy Don 12,218]

1 hour ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Glad your gonna try and save the Onan. 

I noticed a refurbed P220 for sale in the classifieds, too.

[tom2p 2,394]

 

slim67 ( @slim67 ) has a P220 you might be interested in 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:14 PM, kpinnc said:

 

Quite a few Kohler parts houses online. Napa still carries parts too, or did recently.

 

I repowered my Scag with a Vanguard 810 (26hp). It's the only time in my life that I bought a new engine, and I did so because of the commercial warranty- and like you said because so many were showing up on commercial equipment.

 

I'm going to stop now. I dun hijacked another thread...

Ew... scag! 

 

I used a scag 1 time...   ...thing was fast as... 

Don

[WheelHorse520H 708]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:53 PM, Handy Don said:

I noticed a refurbed P220 for sale in the classifieds, too.

@fishingstar you could have 2 P220s! The possibilities are endless. I always say keep the Onan. If you keep it well maintained it will go forever and because Cummins Onan still makes RV generators it is still easy to get parts, even though they cost a little more. IMHO the Onan is worth keeping.

[chipwitch 73]

On 8/11/2021 at 3:54 PM, richmondred01 said:

I understand and bow down to your vast experience on the aforementioned subject. 
Once again, I’m sorry if your feelings are hurt.

If you want, please forward me your address and I will be glad to send you a trophy. 
 

 

For all your talk about "snowflakes", you're sure acting like an injured little victim.  Why?  Just because they disagreed with you?  What am I missing here?  I remember a time people could have a difference of opinion without it somehow reflecting on their personal identity.  Grow up, man and knock it off with the personal insults.

 

 

[chipwitch 73]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:48 PM, Snoopy11 said:

Dude... you made us go through all that for nothing? 

 

Just kidding...  I enjoy running my mouth...

 

Don

 

Don, it wasn't for nothin'.  My mower is a C165.  I was hoping to baby it through this season and rebuild the engine in the winter, but it had some other ideas.  I was considering the DuroMax as a temporary engine and found your comments in my search.  I appreciate your input on this.  For one thing, it didn't occur to me that the engine isn't suitable for slopes?  We have slopes here.  Is this an issue for the k341 as well?  I really don't want to spend a grand on the v-twin.  Is there a suitable alternative?

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by chipwitch

[Snoopy11 5,714]

4 hours ago, chipwitch said:

 

Don, it wasn't for nothin'.  My mower is a C165.  I was hoping to baby it through this season and rebuild the engine in the winter, but it had some other ideas.  I was considering the DuroMax as a temporary engine and found your comments in my search.  I appreciate your input on this.  For one thing, it didn't occur to me that the engine isn't suitable for slopes?  We have slopes here.  Is this an issue for the k341 as well?  I really don't want to spend a grand on the v-twin.  Is there a suitable alternative?

 

 

Well, here is the thing. Most new engines come with low oil sensors. Low oil sensors would be the only reason that these engines would not be suitable for slopes. When immersed in oil, the voltage from the primary lead of the ignition coil will not jump the gap because oil is a good insulator. When the oil level dips and the gap is exposed to air, the energy jumps the air gap and triggers an SCR to ground out the ignition primary - stopping the engine. However, you can simply unplug the wire that comes from the low oil sensor… which solves that issue. Mechanically speaking, it really doesn’t matter what the slope is (unless you are… like… upside-down…), as the cam is still spraying oil everywhere. You can buy a new Lifan 24 horse v-twin for like 800$... not including shipping from somewhere like home depot.

 

The engine I would go with if I didn’t want to pay quite 1 grand, is Carroll Stream: https://www.carrollstream.com/20HP-Gas-Engine-With-Electric-Start-p/2v77.htm

 

Carroll Stream engines are excellent specimens. Not to mention, they have a sale going right now and offer free shipping on all engines. This engine has a 1 year warranty and all replacement parts are available for this engine (not that you need them, but good information to put out there). I can vouch for that fact that Carroll stream engines are just as good quality, if not better than Honda based on parts quality, and accessibility since the engines come from Michigan. Carroll stream also has diesel engines, if that is something you are interested in.

 

That’d be my advice buddy!

 

Don

[chipwitch 73]

4 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Well, here is the thing. Most new engines come with low oil sensors. Low oil sensors would be the only reason that these engines would not be suitable for slopes. When immersed in oil, the voltage from the primary lead of the ignition coil will not jump the gap because oil is a good insulator. When the oil level dips and the gap is exposed to air, the energy jumps the air gap and triggers an SCR to ground out the ignition primary - stopping the engine. However, you can simply unplug the wire that comes from the low oil sensor… which solves that issue. Mechanically speaking, it really doesn’t matter what the slope is (unless you are… like… upside-down…), as the cam is still spraying oil everywhere. You can buy a new Lifan 24 horse v-twin for like 800$... not including shipping from somewhere like home depot.

 

The engine I would go with if I didn’t want to pay quite 1 grand, is Carroll Stream: https://www.carrollstream.com/20HP-Gas-Engine-With-Electric-Start-p/2v77.htm

 

Carroll Stream engines are excellent specimens. Not to mention, they have a sale going right now and offer free shipping on all engines. This engine has a 1 year warranty and all replacement parts are available for this engine (not that you need them, but good information to put out there). I can vouch for that fact that Carroll stream engines are just as good quality, if not better than Honda based on parts quality, and accessibility since the engines come from Michigan. Carroll stream also has diesel engines, if that is something you are interested in.

 

That’d be my advice buddy!

 

Don

I'm sorry I wasn't clear.  The only reason I mentioned the v-twin is it seemed earlier you were recommending it as a step up from the Duromax single cylinder engines..  I have a c-165 swinging a 48" mower deck.  I only need 16 hp.  Of the 16 hp, which would you prefer, the Duromax or the carrolstream?  And I realize hp and displacement only have a generally proportional relationship, but geesh, 420 cc vs 588?  I assume the cheaper ones are higher compression?

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

15 minutes ago, chipwitch said:

I'm sorry I wasn't clear.  The only reason I mentioned the v-twin is it seemed earlier you were recommending it as a step up from the Duromax single cylinder engines..  I have a c-165 swinging a 48" mower deck.  I only need 16 hp.  Of the 16 hp, which would you prefer, the Duromax or the carrolstream?  And I realize hp and displacement only have a generally proportional relationship, but geesh, 420 cc vs 588?  I assume the cheaper ones are higher compression?

 

Oh, oh, oh, I see. So... you are wanting a single cylinder! Well, the Duromax 16 horsepower is going to be a little cheaper. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Duromax. But... see below:

 

Let me put it this way. If I had $450+, and planned to modify an engine, I would choose Duromax all day. That is because I have personally modified the Duromax and know what fits and what doesn't. However, if you plan to keep things stock, Carroll Stream all the way. I do not personally know what fits in a Carroll Stream engine, because I have never had reason to open it... 3 years going on my CS engine, stock. (Promo code RHINO5 to get 5 bucks off WOO HOO... Go buy yourself a candy bar with the 5 bucks you save...)... 

 

https://www.carrollstream.com/16HP-Gas-Engine-With-Electric-Start-B-p/cs190esb18.htm

 

One more reason to choose Carroll Stream, the throttle bracket/linkage. Duromax engine doesn't have any throttle bracket/linkage, so that is something you have to fab/modify (not really a big deal, but something to keep in mind). Carroll Stream engines don't have a throttle bracket/linkage, but you can buy one from them here that does work on the 16 hp engine and looks like:

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

37 minutes ago, chipwitch said:

I'm sorry I wasn't clear.  The only reason I mentioned the v-twin is it seemed earlier you were recommending it as a step up from the Duromax single cylinder engines..  I have a c-165 swinging a 48" mower deck.  I only need 16 hp.  Of the 16 hp, which would you prefer, the Duromax or the carrolstream?  And I realize hp and displacement only have a generally proportional relationship, but geesh, 420 cc vs 588?  I assume the cheaper ones are higher compression?

 

I should add... the cc ratings on these engines are often bloated to make it look like 1 is more potent than the other. There is no noticeable difference in power between the engines...

 

Don