Maybe a Commando 8 Piece Together

[oliver2-44 9,710]

So my youngest son just bought a house.  I spent the l5 whirlwind days there doing some repairs, re-stretched  the carpet, some minor electrical the PO butchered and some painting.  Then we all move him and his wife from a second story apartment. 
I resurrected a self propelled push mower for him (I’m a nice dad after all).  After his first mowing he was groaning, Dad I need a riding mower.  
He probable has the least mechanical experience of my 3 sons, but has done his car maintenance such as  water pumps and alternators type repairs. So a tractor project would be good for him except he now lives 3 hours away.  
I have enough projects but since I restored the 312-8 for my oldest son I’ve always figured I would do a WH for the other 2 sons. 
 

Anyway, awhile back I picked up a Commando 8 parts tractor, no engine and transmission internals in a box.  Needs some bearings and typical gears ruined by shift grinding 
 I have two 8 speed transmissions that could be parts donors for the Commando 4 speed transmission or upgrade the Commando to an 8 speed. What do y’all suggest 

I also have the NOS 8 HP Kohler Magnum I picked up a few months ago.   

I believe @Sparkey has this same engine shoehorned in a medium frame tractor.  Am I correct this should bolt righ in with maybe some belt guard mounting modification.   I have some manual and electric PTO parts that I would need some help figuring out what would work best. 

 

I have a 36” later model WH mower deck that I originally though would not fit this tractor. Then a few days ago @ACman posted this picture. So It looks like the deck would fit .

Could I use a newer front mule drive instead of the side one.

 My thought is we could get it pieced together and work out any issues for him to use next summer. Then do a full restoration in the future

 

I appreciate all y’all input on what I would run into piecing this together. 
 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by oliver2-44

[stevasaurus 22,711]

Jim, I believe your 4 speed #5053 will not have too many gears in common with your 8 speed transmissions.  In fact, might be just the cluster gear that is the same.  If you have all the parts for the 4 speed trans, your Commando would still be original, but I think I would go for the 8 speed to bolt in instead.  You will have to mess with the linkage though, because the break drum is in a different place.  

[ebinmaine 67,313]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

think I would go for the 8 speed to bolt in instead.  You will have to mess with the linkage though, because the break drum is in a different place

I'd agree. 

Several of us have done 3 or 6 speed to 8 speed transplanting. 

@pullstart has one he uses regularly. 

 

I didn't keep mine together because I found the constant clutching of a back and forth plow tractor too much for the new belt position to stay happy very long.  

For a mower or cruiser it should be fine once tuned in. 

[rjg854 11,353]

My opinion would be to keep the 4 speed transmission. I don't feel having those extra gears will mean much if all he'll do is mow lawn and possibly plow snow  You won't have to fabricate anything. My thinking is less is better. When will those lower gears ever get used really? Why complicate things. I've never had a need on a Commando 8 for low range. I've used mine to plow and blow snow and mow with.

[stevasaurus 22,711]

My thought was about how much that 3 speed transmission was going to cost to fix, and you have 2 eight speeds sitting there.  

[ebinmaine 67,313]

17 minutes ago, rjg854 said:

My opinion would be to keep the 4 speed transmission. I don't feel having those extra gears will mean much

I'd agree with that in general concept. 

Low gears are for tilling or in my case, backing very slowly. 

 

My thought process behind the 8 speed swap is that the (3/4?) speed needs gears replaced. 

 

 

[oliver2-44 9,710]

21 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

My thought was about how much that 3 speed transmission was going to cost to fix, and you have 2 eight speeds sitting there.  

That's a good thought.  I'll try to get a list  together of what gears I really need. 

 

Regarding the mower deck and PTO:

 

Am I correct that a newer style 36" deck will fit under a commando fit a front mule drive?

 

Can I use a late 60's style mechanical PTO with a side bracket and rod to engage it?

 

44 minutes ago, rjg854 said:

  and possibly plow snow  You won't have to fabricate anything. 

 Unless we have reoccurring mega winter storms like we had this past February, plowing snow is a once in a lifetime event. 

[rjg854 11,353]

That's what I wasn't sure about.

[stevasaurus 22,711]

Jim, see what you need to fix the 3 speed, that will point you in the direction you need to look at.  Pull up the IPL's in the 8-speeds and see if they contain any parts that you could use.  Like I said...the cluster gear and maybe a couple of gears that do not wear out.  Go from there and let us know what you find.  The last thing I want to do is give you some bad information while guessing what I do not know what you have.  

[Pullstart 62,807]

Jim, the only thing not stock once you convert to 8 speed from 3 speed is your means for a parking brake.  On my converted tractor, Putt Putt, I generally have no issue parking it in neutral on a flat ground.  No big hills to speak of or I just kill it.  I’m a vote for the 8 speed swap!  

[stevasaurus 22,711]

Kevin, it is not just the parking brake. it is the fact that the linkage is set for the brake drum being on the Mushroom gear shaft in the 3 speed and on the cluster gear shaft on the 8 speed.  That linkage needs to be adjusted to fit so the clutch and brake pedal work.  I wish I had a dime for every time I have typed this.    

[oliver2-44 9,710]

I'm not to concerned about modifying the linkage to make the 8 speed work.  I'm sure I would have questions just to verify the best way to do it.

 

@stevasaurus here's the gears I have out of the case. I got it with the differential still in the transmission case on the Commando so it has back wheels to roll

 

The Shift forks look OK.

 the 3527 on the left end of the this shaft look good.

 

The Small gear on the 3525 Cluster shaft is heavily worn, middle gear has some rounding on left side.

 

Here's a close up of almost 1/8" worn off the small cluster gear. That was a lot of grinding

Both shift gears 3524 and 3523 have teeth rounded on the corners

Close up 3524

Another close up 3523 input gear

inside teeth of 3523 where the input gear meshes  

Input shaft 2522 gear 

Reverser gear 4204 has pitting, I have a good one of these besides what's in the 8 speeds. 

 

fixed gear on 9840 cluster shaft

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by oliver2-44

[kpinnc 11,934]

3 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

Am I correct that a newer style 36" deck will fit under a commando fit a front mule drive?

 

Can I use a late 60's style mechanical PTO with a side bracket and rod to engage it?

 

The Commando is a short frame, so I can't be certain you'll be able to squeeze the 36 under there.

 

There are a few pics of the Commando 800 with the new style 36 deck and PTO with a rod engagement, as well as a mule drive. But the 800 has smaller  wheels front and back so it has about another 1.5 inches between the wheels.

 

 

[oliver2-44 9,710]

28 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

The Commando is a short frame, so I can't be certain you'll be able to squeeze the 36 under there.

 

There are a few pics of the Commando 800 with the new style 36 deck and PTO with a rod engagement, as well as a mule drive. But the 800 has smaller  wheels front and back so it has about another 1.5 inches between the wheels.

 

 

@kpinnc you bring up an interesting point.  I need to get a picture of the ID plate the next time I'm at the farm where this tractor is stored just to verify if it is a commando 8 vs a Commando 800.  I know it had a starter generator if that verifies anything.  

[stevasaurus 22,711]

Jim, that owner before you looks like he never came to a stop when shifting.  Probably why that trans was in pieces.  I would replace both fork gears and the cluster gear, and maybe the input shaft.  I bet he had to hold it in 3rd gear.  Nice pictures Mate.  

   The transmission on a Commando 800 would have the brake drum on the cluster gear shaft.  The brake drum would be on the mushroom gear in the commando 8.  

[oliver2-44 9,710]

I've been back and forth to the farm a lot lately as my mom had been under the weather down there.  Dr. finaly pit her in the hospital to get rid of a mild case of pneumonia.  (at 92 any pneumonia is not mild) .

Got her back home and squaeded away so  made a quick stop at the farm storage barn and its definitely a Commando 8.  I took some crude measurements of the 3 blade rear discharge mower deck I have and it wont fit, needs 2". 

But maybe, just maybe some 4" square tubing spacers between the transmission plate and the transmission could make it fit??

Tomorrow I will check if an 8 speed transmission is the same length as a 3 speed transmission.  I think they are, but will double check,

 

It sure seems this short frame tractor would make tight turns and make a good mower tractor if I can find a simple way to make what I have fit/work..

 

[ebinmaine 67,313]

5 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

sure seems this short frame tractor would make tight turns and make a good mower tractor if I can find a simple way to make what I have fit/work

A 3/4 speed is the same exterior as a 6/8 speed. 

It will bolt in. 

It is NOT a direct fit. The input pulleys are located on different shafts. 

 

It will work as long as you don't need to do a lot of start/stop such as plowing snow back and forth. 

 

@pullstart has had success. Others as well. 

 

The length difference between a long and short frame is about 2-3/4" or so. All in front of the foot pegs. 

 

Adding a spacer to the area between the frame and transmission might solve the issue but it will raise others. 

Belt length. Linkage length and lineups. Seat pan attachment etc. 

[kpinnc 11,934]

I really don't think you will have any major issues fitting a 36 Tach-a-matic deck to a short frame. As ebinmaine said, the frames are identical up to the foot pegs. From the belly hitch to the tranny, the deck will fit like any newer tractor. Two inches shorter between the belly hitch and front axle shouldn't be a problem for a 36 side or rear discharge. You'll need to find or fabricate a mule drive, which bolts on- and the belt from the PTO will need to be shorter. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by kpinnc

[71_Bronco 1,072]

One nice thing about the newer decks is the blades. I was running on old gear-drive deck on my Commando 8 (which did a great job cutting), but had to get the special blade set. One blade spins right, one spins left, due to the gear drive.

 

As others have stated, the 8-speeds will technically bolt into place onto the frame, but have compatibility issues with the brake linkages and possible the inputs as Eric stated.

 

I did put an 8-speed into my Commando, but I was fortunate enough to find a 5060 transmission for it (has the same input and output shaft as the old 3-speeds), so it was literally a bolt-in.

 

In my opinion, I'd say put a 3-speed into it, make it less complicated and no modifications for the brake linkage / drive belt.

[Pullstart 62,807]

If you’re going through extra work to fit a larger deck underneath, keep in mind that simply spacing the transmission doesn’t take care of the sheet metal over the transmission.  It bolts to the top of the case, the fender bolts to that, parking brake lever attaches there… etc.