Greentored 3,214 #1 Posted August 3, 2021 Most of you will never have an issue with the stock replacement head gaskets for the Briggs opposed twins, but just wanted to put this info out there incase: Seems a lot of, if not all, original gaskets had a 'fire ring', and from my non stop digging, they can no longer be found, and you are stuck with the non fire ring, graphite garbage. This appears to be more of an issue in the performance world, but yes occasionally on stockers as well. I have been working with Lani at Copper Gaskets Unlimited for a couple months, mailed a pair of oem gaskets to him, and he has written a program to cut copper gaskets for these engines. This is the first set in the pic, and they are perfect. They are even available in thicknesses from .016 to .125 incase anyone wants to play a little for some more oomph. As you know, copper is also reusable- many times! May be a nice option for when decarboning? CGU is online, give him a call or email if these interest you. 1 6 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,424 #2 Posted August 3, 2021 Interesting... Just got back from the CGU web site, which took a while because they've got some very cool motorcycle pics in their gallery... I'm sure they could create head gaskets for pretty much any engine the Wheel Horse community could throw at them. Prices seem slightly higher than the standard gaskets we can get, but not unreasonable if the quality is there. So a couple of questions: What does the fire ring on the old gaskets actually do? Some of the OEM Kohler gaskets still have the fire ring, not necessarily the aftermarket replacements. And what are the advantages (and disadvantages) of copper head gaskets for these old engines? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 27,602 #3 Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, tunahead72 said: What does the fire ring on the old gaskets actually do? Some of the OEM Kohler gaskets still have the fire ring, not necessarily the aftermarket replacements. And what are the advantages (and disadvantages) of copper head gaskets for these old engines? The fire ring provides a steel ring all around the combustion chamber instead of having just the graphite gasket edge around the combustion chamber. A copper gasket is a very good alternative to the graphite gaskets and like stated it can be reused several times. Copper was used on many early engines, price of copper prompted many companies to look for more cost effective material. Edited August 3, 2021 by Achto 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,424 #4 Posted August 3, 2021 Just did a little more research... Turns out Zach Kerber is already making copper head gaskets (and other parts) for the Kohler K-series engines, in two thicknesses: Kohler K-Series Engine Parts (zkbrmachine.com) Also, for what it's worth, Brian Miller recommends against using copper gaskets with a stock OEM Kohler head. I don't know enough about engines to give an opinion, so I'm wondering if anybody here has used copper head gaskets on a small engine, and how did it work out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greentored 3,214 #5 Posted August 4, 2021 19 hours ago, tunahead72 said: Just did a little more research... Turns out Zach Kerber is already making copper head gaskets (and other parts) for the Kohler K-series engines, in two thicknesses: Kohler K-Series Engine Parts (zkbrmachine.com) Also, for what it's worth, Brian Miller recommends against using copper gaskets with a stock OEM Kohler head. I don't know enough about engines to give an opinion, so I'm wondering if anybody here has used copper head gaskets on a small engine, and how did it work out? I have run them on a couple different small engines with no issues. They are a little less forgiving to badly warped surfaces and/or deep scratches, so you want the surfaces as smoothe and flat as possible. Many folks spray the gasket with a couple coats of Permatex spray copper before assembly, to help with any small surface imperfections. @pullstart nailed it perfectly on the graphite with and without the fire ring. The non fire ring gaskets would not hold up back in the 5hp briggs kart days. I tried one on Hoss, which is a pretty beefed up K321 and 9.3:1 compression. It was fine until I hooked up the plow and buried it in this NC clay- it blew that crappy gasket apart in less than 40 feet. In a pinch, I actually grabbed an oem, used fire ring gasket from another K series out of the trash can and installed it haha. That was a year ago and shes still going strong! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,424 #6 Posted August 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Greentored said: ... @pullstart nailed it perfectly on the graphite with and without the fire ring... Did you mean @Achto ? One of these days I'll clean out the combustion chamber and install the new head gasket on my old Troy-Bilt tiller (7HP Kohler K161). I bought this machine used, but only lightly so, and I would be very surprised if the gasket on there now wasn't the original. If I remember correctly, the replacement is a genuine Kohler part and looks like a non-fire-ring graphite type. It will be interesting to see how it performs compared to the old one -- I'll definitely keep the old one around, just in case. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greentored 3,214 #7 Posted August 5, 2021 On 8/4/2021 at 8:35 AM, tunahead72 said: Did you mean @Achto ? oh. yeah. that guy too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 48,828 #8 Posted August 5, 2021 On 8/3/2021 at 8:45 AM, tunahead72 said: very cool motorcycle pics in their gallery.. Got that right Ed! Copper Gaskets Unlimited rs=w_1300,h_800.jfif 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
