TonyBer 71 #1 Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) Hello, been using a 1973 8 HP / 4spd since later winter to plow and then cut this spring. Just got it last winter and just love her. Starts right up and runs great with no smoke or any abnormal noises. I was performing a normal oil change and looked closely at the oil coming out and in could see faintly what looked like tiny metal specs or very very small metal flake. They are hard to photograph and or see and appear to be about the size of a pinhead. You can barely see on my finger tip. Would this be of concern? There was nothing bigger in size? Thoughts? Thanks in advance. Edited August 2, 2021 by TonyBer picture in wrong place Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,153 #2 Posted August 2, 2021 See if they are magnetic. If not my first guess is your rod or piston is trying to tell you something. Any rattles from the engine ? My 16 started a light rattle. I took the engine out and replaced it. I took the old engine apart and found this. Remember the engine was running! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacer 3,173 #3 Posted August 2, 2021 Hmmmm! whatever it is cant be good.... First of is to determine what it is (if possible) First guess is aluminum - based on the light color on your finger. As @squonk mentioned it doesnt have to quit running to have serious damage --- and, actually it may be fortunate that you found it before it 'grenaded' and really serious damage occur. Definitely dont run it til you know more! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyBer 71 #4 Posted August 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, pacer said: Hmmmm! whatever it is cant be good.... First of is to determine what it is (if possible) First guess is aluminum - based on the light color on your finger. As @squonk mentioned it doesnt have to quit running to have serious damage --- and, actually it may be fortunate that you found it before it 'grenaded' and really serious damage occur. Definitely dont run it til you know more! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyBer 71 #5 Posted August 2, 2021 The flakes / specs are not magnetic (I just tested them) so yes it appears to be aluminum. What should I do as a next step? Thanks!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacer 3,173 #6 Posted August 2, 2021 1 minute ago, TonyBer said: What should I do as a next step? Thanks!!! Well, the sad truth is .... youre just gonna have to pull the engine and take a look inside! As I mentioned, hopefully by your finding this before disaster struck, it just may not be too bad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,153 #7 Posted August 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, TonyBer said: The flakes / specs are not magnetic (I just tested them) so yes it appears to be aluminum. What should I do as a next step? Thanks!!! Pull the engine off and then pull off the pan. Examine the innards of the pan for any larger chunks. I would say a piston skirt is broken like mine was or the connecting rod oil dipper is breaking or has broken off. If you run it anymore you may end up with this! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,334 #8 Posted August 2, 2021 Ouch! That is going to run into cubic dollars!! Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 9,759 #9 Posted August 2, 2021 If you have or know someone with a borescope or endoscope you could run it through the oil drain hole and look around inside. I have an inexpensive one off ebay that connects to my Iphone. ought it for a house plumbing problem, but it sure works great for tractors 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuneup 1,433 #10 Posted August 2, 2021 If you're like me, you can't get something old and not take it apart to 'get to know it'. Sounds like it's not on mowing duty right now so you have time to pull that engine - doesn't take long - and toss it on the bench. You'll know soon enough! Loose rod, damaged piston, cracked dipper... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roadapples 6,983 #11 Posted August 2, 2021 I may be just lucky, but I don't think I've ever changed oil in anything, car, truck, tractor, transmission, rear end etc, that I didn't find some of that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,548 #12 Posted August 3, 2021 3 hours ago, roadapples said: I don't think I've ever changed oil in anything, car, truck, tractor, transmission, rear end etc. You are soooo busted! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roadapples 6,983 #13 Posted August 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, oldredrider said: You are soooo busted! I'm serious... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,424 #14 Posted August 3, 2021 I'm with you, Jay! I've NEVER had engine oil come out that clean during a drain/change, and I feel like I'm pretty careful about doing oil changes on a regular basis. I'm hard pressed to even see anything of concern in that first photo. I'll take Tony's word for it, of course, it's just that my 68-year-old eyes ain't seein' it. I'm very curious to see where this thread goes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #15 Posted August 22, 2021 On 8/2/2021 at 9:59 PM, tunahead72 said: I'm with you, Jay! I've NEVER had engine oil come out that clean during a drain/change, and I feel like I'm pretty careful about doing oil changes on a regular basis. I'm hard pressed to even see anything of concern in that first photo. I'll take Tony's word for it, of course, it's just that my 68-year-old eyes ain't seein' it. I'm very curious to see where this thread goes. On 8/2/2021 at 9:25 PM, roadapples said: I'm serious... On 8/2/2021 at 6:01 PM, roadapples said: I may be just lucky, but I don't think I've ever changed oil in anything, car, truck, tractor, transmission, rear end etc, that I didn't find some of that... Right... So... these engines don't have oil pumps... thus some metal is expected during break-in of a new motor. BUT... continuation/onset of noticeable metallic properties in oil of an engine that has been running... many hours... indicates an issue with rod bearings, either at crankshaft journal or at wristpin. Piston ring wear is usual in these engines, BUT IT WILL ALWAYS MAGNETIZE. Lack of oil and lack of quality oil is cause of various issues. (when I say lack of oil, I am not meaning user error [although possible user error is the case], but I am literally meaning within the context of these engines, there are times when rod - crankpin is not oiled properly). This can cause the metal flakes you see. The rod may also be rubbing the outside of the crankpin. My advice... buy butt-load of mobil-1 oil, 10w30 my recommendation, and change oil after 1 run of a few minutes. See if metal is in oil. Take engine out for longer run, drain, check oil. Do this, and if you still see quite a bit of flaking, dissection of motor, potentially replacing rod and cleaning crank jounral are in order. I won't say anything about guys who see metal flaking in their engines... besides... seeing excess metal in these engines gives me cause for concern. If the bearings on the inside of the rod have contacted the crank journal, this begins a saga which cannot end well. If the bearings continue to rub over and over on the crank journal, this creates excess heat which can cause the rod to break, further damaging the engine. In my opinion, if you are seeing excess material in your oil... you should be concerned. Don't believe me... contact ARC Racing. Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
