Kohler Twin

[Gregor 4,846]

I ordered a jug from ebay. I hope it is the right one. The jug for the left side, has a different part # than the jug for the right side. I am wondering if that is due to the drilled and tapped holes for the coil bracket. Both jugs have the bosses for for the holes. I am wondering if the 2n jugs are interchangeable, from side to side, but for the tapped holes. I do not need the tapped holes on the right side.

[953 nut 55,229]

39 minutes ago, Gregor said:

The jug for the left side, has a different part # than the jug for the right side. I am wondering if that is due to the drilled and tapped holes for the coil bracket.

he intake and exhaust manifold are opposite from left to right.

[Gregor 4,846]

9 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

he intake and exhaust manifold are opposite from left to right.

Awwwww

[Gregor 4,846]

I have had the carb for the M 16 soaking in Berrymans for a couple of days, I just took it out. I got to wondering. How many carbs can you run through 1 can of Berrymans? I have probably done 8 - 10.

 

This is a Walbro carb. Really isn't much to it.

[Gregor 4,846]

I got the replacement jug today for the M 16. Just looking at it, it looks pretty good. After I get a few chores done around here, I will take some measurements, and see what I need to do with both jugs. I know the crank needs to be ground.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,846]

I took the jugs and crank to my machine shop guy for the MV 16 Twin. I have been cleaning up the rest of the parts. This motor has a Walbro carb. The numbers I find on it are, 5205327, and WHG 300127. I would like a carb rebuild kit, or an aftermarket carb, whichever I can get. I have a Kohler style 30 carb, but the throttle linkage is different. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks  Greg

Edited August 23, 2021 by Gregor

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,043]

Found the 52 053 27 on pages 1.4 and 3.10 and 3.11.

The Kohler "kits" in this manual are complete carbs.

Each chart in printed form is on a left and right page so keep that in mind.

 

[953 nut 55,229]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:02 PM, Gregor said:

WHG 300127. I would like a carb rebuild kit,

Got lots to choose from on 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=New+Genuine+Walbro+WHG+Carburetor+Kit+K1-WHG

[Gregor 4,846]

54 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Found the 52 053 27 on pages 1.4 and 3.10 and 3.11.

The Kohler "kits" in this manual are complete carbs.

Each chart in printed form is on a left and right page so keep that in mind.

 

Thanks for the info. I was finally able to contact Walbro, They told me the carb was no longer available, and there was no replacement carb. I was able to order a rebuild kit. He called it "very basic". I guess I'll see what that means when I get it.

[EB-80/8inPA 1,641]

If you’re still considering a replacement carb, and in the unlikely event you haven’t  already heard of him, Norman over at www.isavetractors.com appears to have one that will fit.  It’s shown for the MV16, but not the MV16S, however.  I got a replacement for my K181 from him and it ran perfectly well right out of the box.  The gasket came as a separate part.  The design made one of the mounting screws a challenge to get to, but other than that minor issue it was a great deal.  He makes them right there in Maine, so there’s that, too.  Hope that helps.

Edited August 26, 2021 by EB-80/8inPA

[Gregor 4,846]

11 hours ago, Gregor said:

He called it "very basic".

He was right. The kit is very basic, but it has new bowl gaskets, and float pin with needle valve. That's mostly what I wanted.

[kpinnc 12,049]

Seeing what you've done on previous projects, I'm excited to see how this rebuild goes!

 

Translation: be sure to post plenty of pictures!

[Gregor 4,846]

On 8/26/2021 at 11:13 PM, kpinnc said:

Seeing what you've done on previous projects, I'm excited to see how this rebuild goes!

 

Translation: be sure to post plenty of pictures!

Waiting   Waiting   Patiently Waiting on the machine shop. But patience is wearing thin.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Gregor

[kpinnc 12,049]

13 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Waiting   Waiting   Patiently Waiting on the machine shop. But patience is wearing thin.

 

I understand completely! I'm waiting on two tiny little parts to finish my build!

[Gregor 4,846]

The machine shop called today. Piston and rings, .010 over. Rods, .010 over. Bearings, .020 over. So far I have found the rods, rings, and bearings, Rods, $182 Each. Bearings, $192 Each. Rings, $109 Each. So far that's very close to $500, and does not include any machining, or pistons. I think this project is going to get tabled, unless I can find alternative parts. That's a lot of money to spend on a motor, just for the experience of working on a 2 cylinder. Plus there is the gasket set, and other incidentals. I will look further, but I believe I may have some Kohler MV 16 parts available, if anyone needs something. At least everything is clean.

[pfrederi 17,739]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

The machine shop called today. Piston and rings, .010 over. Rods, .010 over. Bearings, .020 over. So far I have found the rods, rings, and bearings, Rods, $182 Each. Bearings, $192 Each. Rings, $109 Each. So far that's very close to $500, and does not include any machining, or pistons. I think this project is going to get tabled, unless I can find alternative parts. That's a lot of money to spend on a motor, just for the experience of working on a 2 cylinder. Plus there is the gasket set, and other incidentals. I will look further, but I believe I may have some Kohler MV 16 parts available, if anyone needs something. At least everything is clean.

I have my M18 back together but haven't fired it up yet.  Not as bad price wise yet.  Will total it up ...IF it runs...

[Gregor 4,846]

43 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

I have my M18 back together but haven't fired it up yet.  Not as bad price wise yet.  Will total it up ...IF it runs...

Did you replace bearings? Is this a twin?

[pfrederi 17,739]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

Did you replace bearings? Is this a twin?

M18 twin.  Pistons Rings Rods valves valve guides. Taking a chance on the crank sleeve bearings.

[Gregor 4,846]

I ordered a new gasket set and rings on ebay, Standard size. I also ordered a used crank with bearings, and rods, all standard. All for less than $250. I will check all the parts I receive, against the parts I have, and use the best of the lot. There will be no machine shop work. Had this been a horizontal shaft engine, I may have invested a bit more into it. As it is,  I really have no use for a vertical shaft, and it will sit on the shelf, (with 6 other engines) when I am done with it, providing it runs.

[Gregor 4,846]

I got the new/used crank and rods for the engine. Everything was leaps and bounds better than I already had. I got the crank, both bearings, and both rods, for $60. I thought that was a deal. Both rods were in one piece, that's a BIG plus. My original crank didn't spec bad, but this new one just looked better to me, so I commenced to putting it back together while the jugs were cooking. I never removed the oil pump, as per manual suggestion, nor did I remove the governor gear or shaft. I saw no reason to.

I know most will disagree with the practice of using thread locker on rod bolts/nuts, but I always do. It looks to me like the nuts on this rod simply backed off. The threads on both studs, and in the nuts were fine. I have seen this before in 2 cycle engines. Maybe it was a Friday and the guy assembling this motor was in a hurry, I don't know, but I don't expect them to back off again.

 

 

When I took this motor apart, I made a diagram of all the bolts holding the block halves together. It's a good thing I did. I wasn't expecting it to be 7 or 8 weeks later.

I am as far as I can go right now, until I get the new gasket set, and rings. Hopefully Monday

[Gregor 4,846]

My rebuild project is going less than stellar. My wife had to make a trip to the "Big City", so I had her stop and pick up my parts from the machine shop. Yesterday, I got to looking for the valves, could not find them. I asked my wife. She doesn't have a clue, she simply brought home what they handed her. My crank, and 2 jugs. Called the machine shop this morning. OOPs They forgot the valves. Back to the "Big City". Shortly after noon today my rebuild kit arrived. It came in a cardboard envelope. Open it up, and of course, the head gaskets, are pretty bent up. NOT thrilled with that, but I proceed. Next step is to install the front seal on the crank, hmmmm, I don't have a front seal, or a rear seal for that matter. I do have 2 seals, but they are much larger than anything that goes in this engine. The ebay seller provided a phone number, so I call. I talk to someone who obviously does not know a seal from an elephant. I was told to call back after 5, and talk to the owner, I proceed to the next step as per manual. Install piston rings. Of course the end gaps have to be checked, and filed to tolerance. I did that, and installed the top 2 rings. Then there comes the oil ring. Having trouble with this one. Doesn't seem to want to fit in the groove. I fight it for a bit, get all 3 pieces in the ring groove, but I know the fit is so tight, it's never going to compress into the piston, so I remove the oil ring. I check all 3 pieces of the ring with my calipers. They total .197". Check the ring groove on the piston, .157". Yes, my ring grooves are VERY clean. This aint gonna work. I just hope when I call the owner this evening, he knows enough about engines to understand whats going on.

I took ALL the pieces from the rebuild kit, and put them back into the envelope. After I make my call at 5 pm, I think everything will be going back to the seller. I have lost a lot of faith in isavetractors, but if they have a kit available, I will probably order from them.

@pfrederi may I ask where you got your kit for your M18, or did you just order different parts, from different suppliers?

[pfrederi 17,739]

Different places... No one had all of the stuff it seemed. Little red barn had rebuild kit .010 over on piston/ rings but came with STD rods...Also gasket set had crappy exhaust manifold gaskets. Bakt4kids had .010 rods. Pats small engine for a couple things...

 

I had a hard time getting the oil rings in    They sort of nest... Took awhile to figure that out.

[Gregor 4,846]

LRB is where this kit came from. There is no way the oil ring is going to seat in the groove, I don't understand it. In this kit I received an oil pan gasket, and 2 jug to block gaskets. The manual for the MV 16 makes no mention of gaskets, only to use a bead of gasket sealer. I wonder if it would be alright to use the gaskets instead. At least on the jugs.  I ran across this in the manual for the M 18. Closure plate meaning oil pan, to me anyway.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

I bought this motor mostly for the learning experience of rebuilding a twin cylinder, and I did learn something today. I called Lee at Lil Red Barn about my problems. Turns out, he teaches about small engine rebuilding. I explained about the seals, and he looked up the parts, and is sending me 2 of the proper seals.

 

Then I explain to him about the oil ring, not fitting into the groove on the piston, and he explains to me about oil rings. Many, or most of you probably already knew this, but I didn't. It's just possible some others on here don't either, so I will explain, as best I can. First he referred me to the Kohler manual, and I found this.

I was attempting to install a ring first, then the expadner, and then the other ring. That didn't work. Here is why. This is a crude, exaggerated drawing, but it gives the gist of the idea. The black line represents the expander. The red lines represents the rings.

If you look very closely at the expander, you will see the detail of the "wings", for lack of a better term. The rings have to ride on top of these "wings". I was attempting to install the rings on the outside of these "wings". It doesn't work. After trying it his way, installing the expander first, everything was fine.

So again. I learned something today. I have never had this problem in the past, and I am not sure why. Hopefully, I will never have this problem in the future.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

While working on this motor today, looking at the service manual, and parts breakdown, and where to buy this, and where to buy that, I got to wondering. How many of us could rebuild a motor, or even a tractor, without the aid of the internet. I know I couldn't. I suppose a lot of this information is probably available at some larger libraries, but not my hole in the wall library, and even if it were, I would not know how to find it. We probably could not even find tractors to buy, without the internet. When we get stuck on a problem, where do we go?  The internet, and What would we do without either of them. Play shuffleboard I guess.