Gas

[John2189 454]

Anyone having trouble with the ethanol gas?  Seems like all of my equipment is running really bad.  Missing, no power, can’t get the rpm up. Then something happens and it runs normal. All of them act the same way doesn’t matter if 4 cylinder, 2 cylinder or 1 cylinder 

[ebinmaine 67,677]

Search ethanol on this site and you'll find more people than you can possibly comprehend that are against it.

Simply put, you should never ever put ethanol in any small engine. Ever.

 

[pacer 3,174]

Like Eric sez, if you want to find info on pros/cons of this awful stuff we now have to use for fuel --- well, plan on some time, there are dozens of posts on here re this subject. But to save you the trouble, the bottom line is to just DO NOT use the stuff in ANY small engine.... period!! Either find a source to buy ethanol free at the pump, or failing that use one of several additives to add to the regular stuff - Stabil seems to be the most popular, but there are several brands that would probably work also. 

 

My local Wal Mart has been carrying ethanol free for the last 2-3 yrs but for some reason they no longer have it, and the other 3-5 stations that carried it dont have it either??? So for the last few months I have been adding Stabil to my equipments fuel......

[ZXT 2,401]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Simply put, you should never ever put ethanol in any small engine. Ever.

 

 

I'd almost go as far as saying never put it in any engine. Ever. 

 

[lynnmor 7,313]

I hate the ethanol welfare for farmers program as much as anyone, but I will say that I have used 10% ethanol since they started pushing it on us over 40 years ago.  My Wheel Horse tractors never had ethanol free and I never had fuel related problems.  I did have a few problems with pressure washers that sat too long.  I also had issues with my snowmobiles in the very northern part of Maine where they were able to avoid ethanol for many years but then it was pushed on them causing the water and filth in the fuel station tanks to be picked up and dumped in the customers tanks the first winter. 

 

I don't think there is any additive that will do anything worthwhile to that gallon of ethanol mixed with nine gallons of gasoline.  I do use a fuel stabilizer in fuel that will stored for a long time, but that is to keep it fresher.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3EdDB150E

 

 

[953 nut 55,325]

https://www.pure-gas.org/ will help you find the ral thing!

3 hours ago, John2189 said:

all of my equipment is running really bad.  Missing, no power, can’t get the rpm up.

Ethanol has been known to kill the fuel systems of a lot of small engines. It will cost a bit more to use ethanol free gas but it is a bargain considering the improver performance and not having to rebuild fuel syswtem componants. Use ethanol-free gas andsome Seafoam at a rate of four ounces per gallon for a couple of tank-fulls and things should improve.

[daveoman1966 3,752]

Google search:  PA ethanol free gas 16335   (Your State...and Zip).  It'll pop up REAL GAS in your area.

ps...here is what E-gas did to my K241 carburetor, after sitting for less than a month.  

 

[Beap52 815]

The first question the local lawn mower repair shop asks when small engine comes in for repair that may be fuel related is "Are you using ethanol free gas?"   That seems to be a large part of problems they encounter.  When we had a boat, the repairman said to use  Stabil Marine in the boat as well as all small engines.  Apparently, the marine Stabil is for running engines and regular Stabil is for storage.   My brother says his fuel mileage goes down and price goes up in the spring when local stations switch from pure gas to ethanol gas.  I guess they use less corn liquor in the winter time because it attracts water that freezes in the fuel lines.  

 

[Ed Kennell 38,244]

Some info for boaters.    http://jonesbrosmarine.com/blog/ethanol-fuel-in-boats/

[8ntruck 7,021]

 @Beap52  the fuel mileage goes down with added ethanol because the ethanol has something like 30% fewer btu's per gallon than gasoline - you gotta burn more to make the same power.

 

Years ago I was on a long business trip with a rented car that was of the flexfuel type.  On the way out, I burned standard E10 gas.  On the way back, I burned E85.  Sure enough, the gas mileage was about 25% worse on the E85.  The cheaper price of the E85 did not match the drop in mileage, so the operating cost went up with the cheaper fuel.

 

Ethanol has a lower vapor pressure than gasoline, meaning it does not evaporate or vaporize as easily as gasoline.  That situation is aggravated when the weather gets cold.

 

Ethanol does have a higher anti knock rating than gasoline, making it attractive as a performance fuel.  When tuned properly, superchargers and turbochargers can make lots of power on ethanol.  Of course they will require a large quantity of ethanol because of the lower btu per gallon content..... 

[peter lena 8,644]

@John2189 , ever heard of STA-BIL GAS STORAGE TREATMENT ?  I have this in all my gas , with zero issues, use it every time I  top off my tanks , my generator typically sits for months before use , and instant starts is what I always get .  my fuel systems are clean with fresh filters , and EVERY TIME I TOP OFF MY TANK , I ADD A NECK FULL OF STA-BIL , FROM THE BOTTLE , PRETTY EASY , AND ZERO START ISSUES . just my own experience , but I  have no fuel issues , using ethanol fuel.  pete 

[John2189 454]

Ok thanks 

[formariz 11,987]

41 minutes ago, peter lena said:

@John2189 , ever heard of STA-BIL GAS STORAGE TREATMENT ?  I have this in all my gas , with zero issues, use it every time I  top off my tanks , my generator typically sits for months before use , and instant starts is what I always get .  my fuel systems are clean with fresh filters , and EVERY TIME I TOP OFF MY TANK , I ADD A NECK FULL OF STA-BIL , FROM THE BOTTLE , PRETTY EASY , AND ZERO START ISSUES . just my own experience , but I  have no fuel issues , using ethanol fuel.  pete 

This is a topic that has many different opinions. Not knowing exactly what an engine has gone through as it relates to the fuel used it is not possible to 100% pinpoint the cause of the trouble. It is never like a controlled experiment. Here in NJ we have no choice as to what gas we use. It has ethanol period and there is no way around it unless one wants to spend a fortune and countless hours getting straight gas from another state.Having said that, I absolutely agree with the above quote and what is described in it. I have never had these problems with the gas I use but my next door neighbor which also has a wheel horse has. I clean that carburetor at least twice per year finding it always clogged with the famous "pearls". I have here tractors such as my 753 and my 551 just to name a couple, that haven't had the carburetor removed in over 10 years and work flawlessly even though they sit all the time. I start them perhaps once every two weeks at best.

[lynnmor 7,313]

2 hours ago, formariz said:

I have never had these problems with the gas I use but my next door neighbor which also has a wheel horse has. I clean that carburetor at least twice per year finding it always clogged with the famous "pearls". I have here tractors such as my 753 and my 551 just to name a couple, that haven't had the carburetor removed in over 10 years and work flawlessly even though they sit all the time. I start them perhaps once every two weeks at best.

 

 

Many people bring on the problems by the way gas is handled.  Keep the cans and tanks completely closed except for the brief period of time to pour the gas.  A friend of mine has a camp in the mountains and only uses the gas caps on the cans when transporting.

[ZXT 2,401]

23 hours ago, lynnmor said:

I hate the ethanol welfare for farmers program as much as anyone, but I will say that I have used 10% ethanol since they started pushing it on us over 40 years ago.  My Wheel Horse tractors never had ethanol free and I never had fuel related problems.  I did have a few problems with pressure washers that sat too long.  I also had issues with my snowmobiles in the very northern part of Maine where they were able to avoid ethanol for many years but then it was pushed on them causing the water and filth in the fuel station tanks to be picked up and dumped in the customers tanks the first winter. 

 

I don't think there is any additive that will do anything worthwhile to that gallon of ethanol mixed with nine gallons of gasoline.  I do use a fuel stabilizer in fuel that will stored for a long time, but that is to keep it fresher.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3EdDB150E

 

 

40 years ago? Dang. I'd say its been 20 years since it was really "pushed" on us here, and around 2011-2012 was when the last ethanol free station switched to ethanol, due to a rule that if a county had over a certain population, the surrounding counties couldn't sell ethanol free fuel (and we fell in that category). I'm not sure what changed, but about 3 years ago they tore down the gas stations at both of the local Walmarts to install additional tanks for ethanol free fuel. Since then another small station close to my house has started selling it, as has a newly built Murphy station. 

 

My stuff can't sit for more than a couple of months without developing issues when running ethanol fuel. Biggest issues I've had as of recent is in some of my old Porsches, as well as one of my fathers.. If the ethanol fuel in them is very old, once you have run it and get the "gel" that it produces pumped into the electric fuel pumps, it will solidify and stick the pump. Only solution is a replacement $140 Bosch pump. 

[tom2p 2,394]

I do just about everything wrong - but knock on wood no issues 

 

use standard gas from the local Sheetz

 

gas sits in plastic containers in an outdoor resin / plastic storage bin that is exposed to the elements and falling apart and not sealed well - and the caps / vents on the plastic containers are not tight (because when tight the containers will swell due to pressure build)

go figure 

 

but the gas does not sit long - so that could explain why no issues 

 

for the tractors I will typically fill two 5 gallon containers and go through them quickly ... can use around 15 gallons per month spring through fall 

 

 

I use Sta-bil in the gas toward the end of fall - when there is a greater chance the gas will sit longer in the containers or tractors ... and sometimes  will also add a little 2 cycle mix 

 

the tractors will often sit unused for a few months in a garage during the winter months (Dec - Mar)  - but I will start / run them every 30 - 45 or so days 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by tom2p

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,314]

On 7/19/2021 at 5:17 PM, ZXT said:

 

I'd almost go as far as saying never put it in any engine. Ever. 

 

Same here…I have a rule around here…that ALL gas gets purchased from one station and one station only, as they are the only one in the county that sells ethanol free fuel. I run it in everything from our oldest piece of equipment (1942 Case SC) all the way up to our newest (Tasha’s 2000 Silverado V6). She doesn’t understand why I make her spend the extra 30 cents per gallon, and her truck would probably run ok on the ethanol blended fuel, but this way I know that no matter what there is no chance of picking up a can and accidentally pouring ethanol in something that it would hurt. 
 

We don’t keep good track of MPG on her truck, as the odometer doesn’t register correctly due to the larger tires I have on it, but I have noticed with my 94 F350 I average about 10 mpg on 100% gas. Took it on a trip a while back and was forced to buy some E10, my mpg dropped to between 5-6, so for me it’s a no brainer on what fuel to use, that extra 30 cents for the good stuff actually saves money in the end

[John2189 454]

8 minutes ago, ClassicTractorProfessor said:

Same here…I have a rule around here…that ALL gas gets purchased from one station and one station only, as they are the only one in the county that sells ethanol free fuel. I run it in everything from our oldest piece of equipment (1942 Case SC) all the way up to our newest (Tasha’s 2000 Silverado V6). She doesn’t understand why I make her spend the extra 30 cents per gallon, and her truck would probably run ok on the ethanol blended fuel, but this way I know that no matter what there is no chance of picking up a can and accidentally pouring ethanol in something that it would hurt. 
 

We don’t keep good track of MPG on her truck, as the odometer doesn’t register correctly due to the larger tires I have on it, but I have noticed with my 94 F350 I average about 10 mpg on 100% gas. Took it on a trip a while back and was forced to buy some E10, my mpg dropped to between 5-6, so for me it’s a no brainer on what fuel to use, that extra 30 cents for the good stuff actually saves money in the end

I just checked, ethanol free gas here is .90 higher 

[Ed Kennell 38,244]

9 hours ago, ClassicTractorProfessor said:

We don’t keep good track of MPG on her truck, as the odometer doesn’t register correctly due to the larger tires I have on it, but I have noticed with my 94 F350 I average about 10 mpg on 100% gas. Took it on a trip a while back and was forced to buy some E10, my mpg dropped to between 5-6,

 

So to drive 100 miles using 100% gas  requires 10 gallons of gasoline.

To drive 100 miles using E10                requires 18 gallons of gasoline + 2 gallons of ethanol.   

 

[lynnmor 7,313]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

So to drive 100 miles using 100% gas  requires 10 gallons of gasoline.

To drive 100 miles using E10                requires 18 gallons of gasoline + 2 gallons of ethanol.   

 

 

Discussions about politics, religion AND miles per gallon are best left alone. 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

9 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

miles per gallon are best left alone.

 

Agreed... but in my usual fashion, an anecdote:

 

Back in the day one of my friend's older brothers bought a brand new Datsun B-210 and raved about the MPG he was getting.

 

My friend and I each night began to siphon more and more gasoline from his tank.  His MPG went down down down.

 

After a few months and numerous trips to the dealer later...

 

We started putting gasoline BACK IN each night.

 

At one point, he was getting about 50 MPG outta that little Datsun!

 

Then, one night, we got BUSTED!  He was fit to be tied, lemmee tellya!

 

[tom2p 2,394]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

 

Discussions about politics, religion AND miles per gallon are best left alone. 

and motor oil 

 

[tom2p 2,394]

11 hours ago, ClassicTractorProfessor said:

Same here…I have a rule around here…that ALL gas gets purchased from one station and one station only, as they are the only one in the county that sells ethanol free fuel. I run it in everything from our oldest piece of equipment (1942 Case SC) all the way up to our newest (Tasha’s 2000 Silverado V6). She doesn’t understand why I make her spend the extra 30 cents per gallon, and her truck would probably run ok on the ethanol blended fuel, but this way I know that no matter what there is no chance of picking up a can and accidentally pouring ethanol in something that it would hurt. 
 

We don’t keep good track of MPG on her truck, as the odometer doesn’t register correctly due to the larger tires I have on it, but I have noticed with my 94 F350 I average about 10 mpg on 100% gas. Took it on a trip a while back and was forced to buy some E10, my mpg dropped to between 5-6, so for me it’s a no brainer on what fuel to use, that extra 30 cents for the good stuff actually saves money in the end

not uncommon to get less mpg with E10 gas - but the difference should be fairly small ... maybe around 5-10% ... ? ... 50% reduction is certainly not typical 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,244]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

 

Discussions about politics, religion AND miles per gallon are best left alone. 

My Bad......again.

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

I get pure gas about 20 min. from home. It is all I run in seasonal equipment. If you cannot get anything but ethanol laced fuel, try Startron fuel stabilizer. It's what all the marinas recommend and before I could get pure gas I used it. It works.