Loaders: The good and the Bad. Pictures wanted.

[Bill D 1,912]

Thinking about a loader for my 416-8.  I would like some input from those that own them.  Your experiences, good and bad, best brands, etc.  Also, I would like some pictures, especially of subframes and mounting points, as I may have to fabricate a subframe if I find one from a different tractor.  Thanks.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Bill D

[953 nut 55,114]

The basic principal of the sub-frame is to pass all of the load and forces of the loader to the axles protecting the frame of the .

Mine has a rear portion that bolts to the rear axle housing and the frame where a mid-mount Attach-A-Matic would be bolted to the frame. The front part bolts through the frame above the front axle. The two pieces of sub-frame are joined together by a brace from the uprights.

@pullstart did a very good thread on this subject a couple months back.

[Pullstart 62,807]

Here is the thread Richard is talking about.  I built the entire subframe and did a lot of fab work on the top of the subframe as well.  Duke had a very stout beginning to the project, so I added to his original thread.

 

Here’s where I took over...

 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/68968-ark-500-loader-rebuild-on-a-522xi/?page=6&tab=comments#comment-896001

 

[Pullstart 62,807]

I had an Ark 500 in stock form as well.  It came on a C-161 and was (temporarily) installed on a 1056... but never came off until I sold it.

 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/85805-c-161-blackhood-briggs-twin-ark-500-fel/

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/84537-stormy-the-1056/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-858046

 

[JCM 9,130]

Kwik-Way loaders work well on WH tractors. The best model I found after using them on 3 models was the 520-H because of the swept front axle and gear reduction steering. JMO. Pictured on a 1986 417-8 and a 1993  520-H.

[Herder 2,354]

You gotta get a loader Bill.  There's all good and no bad in owning one. 

[Pullstart 62,807]

7 minutes ago, Herder said:

There's all good and no bad in owning one.

Unless you have an uneven load in the bucket and it wants to lay on it’s side!

[Bill D 1,912]

10 minutes ago, Herder said:

You gotta get a loader Bill.  There's all good and no bad in owning one. 

Seeing your loader in action is the reason I want one.

[Herder 2,354]

2 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Unless you have an uneven load in the bucket and it wants to lay on it’s side!

  So far so good, no layovers.  The wide rear stance keeps it very stable. 

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

The basic principal of the sub-frame is to pass all of the load and forces of the loader to the axles protecting the frame of the .

Mine has a rear portion that bolts to the rear axle housing and the frame where a mid-mount Attach-A-Matic would be bolted to the frame. The front part bolts through the frame above the front axle. The two pieces of sub-frame are joined together by a brace from the uprights.

@pullstart did a very good thread on this subject a couple months back.

 

@953 nut is right on the money with his advice. You MUST secure it to the rear axle or you can break them in half, I almost did on my 1277 with Johnson 10 loader after I first got it. The person that put the loader on did not and I flexed it enough to break the hydro controls. 

 

They will work on a gear drive and some like that, but with one on a hydro, it is so smooth on forward and reverse you can really save time. 

 

If you buy a loader not on a tractor look for one with controls on the left, since most WH's have the hydro control on the right. 

 

 

 

 

Randy

[Herder 2,354]

5 minutes ago, Bill D said:

Seeing your loader in action is the reason I want one.

The older and lazier I get, the more I love this tractor.  But all that aside, it's been so handy.  

[roadapples 6,983]

I'm totally happy with my Ark, I think 550, and the way the sub frame fastens. Can't think of any negative points. You'll wonder what you did without it.

[roadapples 6,983]

Also you will want a dedicated tractor for a loader.....

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

1 hour ago, roadapples said:

Also you will want a dedicated tractor for a loader.....

 

 

Absolutely!! And you will never be without one again!

 

I'm on disability with bad back and knees and use my loader to lift everything. You can make attachments to help as well. I need to send my front cylinders to Lowell right now cause they are leaking, but don't want to be without it. I just keep putting fluid in even though I hate doing that. 

 

 

 

 

 

Randy

 

 

 

 

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,791]

13 hours ago, pullstart said:

I had an Ark 500 in stock form as well.  It came on a C-161 and was (temporarily) installed on a 1056... but never came off until I sold it.

 

Its now permanently on c141 auto Dig Dug! I love the subframe setup on this. Full length to distribute all that load to the subframe! And will be a bonus when it comes time for the backhoe. Even the weight box is an extension of the subframe. @pullstartdid a little bit of modification and its a sweet setup.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Wheel Horse 3D

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

Here is a couple of pics, I made a subframe all the way around the back to make it as stout as possible and have a place for weight, but it was probably a little overkill. 

[pfrederi 17,679]

One inch front spindles are a good idea with a loader.

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,791]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

One inch front spindles are a good idea with a loader.

Workin on it! Waiting for some more tooling to arrive. Maybe have them done next week?

After that I'm thinking a reduction geared steering would be the next good idea for a loader.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Wheel Horse 3D

[roadapples 6,983]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

One inch front spindles are a good idea with a loader.

Yup, changed mine over to swept front axle and gear reduction steering, with 1in axles. Also added trailer hubs and wheels. Tires are 6ply highway tires that hold 70psi. Between the two it's like power steering even with loaded bucket...

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,791]

Tryin to avoid the full swept axle expense, but might have to go that route. Been on the lookout for a reduction box with same in and out rotation to take the place of the fan gear setup.

[Country574 7]

$2k, bill…it’s yours

[Shynon 7,459]

Ark Loader - Implements and Attachments - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

Here's my build for a Ark 508 I believe, modifying to go from a 520 to a 518XI. I have since moved the loader to a 522XI with power steering.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Shynon

[Bill D 1,912]

16 hours ago, Country574 said:

$2k, bill…it’s yours

I love it.  I wish you were closer.

[Bill D 1,912]

21 hours ago, Wheel Horse 3D said:

Tryin to avoid the full swept axle expense, but might have to go that route. Been on the lookout for a reduction box with same in and out rotation to take the place of the fan gear setup.

I'm curious, if a loader was installed on a dedicated hydro machine, could the hydraulics from the no longer need attachment lift be used to power some sort of power steering setup?  Has anyone done it. 

[Handy Don 12,167]

1 hour ago, Bill D said:

I'm curious, if a loader was installed on a dedicated hydro machine, could the hydraulics from the no longer need attachment lift be used to power some sort of power steering setup?  Has anyone done it. 

I have not done it. Interesting idea.
On Eaton 1100 pump/motor system, the charge pump is good for about 1.3 gym at a max of 700psi. That would be plenty for a small hydro cylinder. One key factor is that this pump does not have integrated pressure relief (they use open center valves that have built-in pressure relief only on the A and B ports). I’m not sure how auto-style pumps and actuating valves handle pressure relief but I know that these systems run at pressures of 1000psi and higher. 
Failing to put in the correct pressure relief will break a pump very quickly.