My wheel horse c125 will not get spark what so ever

[Achto 27,603]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

They are NOT the same.

Do you happen to know the part number of the new switch you installed?

 

The easiest way to tell if you have the right switch is to look at the letters on the terminals. If you have a terminal marked with an "M" you have the wrong type of switch. If you have a terminal marked with an "I" then you have the right type of switch.

 

An "I" terminal how ever does not mean that the terminals are configured correctly. You may have to move wires around in the plug to get the correct configuration.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Achto

[Gregor 4,846]

3 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

The easiest way to tell if you have the right switch is to look at the letters on the terminals. If you have a terminal marked with an "M" you have the wrong type of switch. If you have a terminal marked with an "I" then you have the right type of switch.

 

An "I" terminal how ever does not mean the the terminals are configured correctly. You may have to move wires around in the plug to get the correct configuration.

Don't I know it !

[Talyn walsh 2]

12 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Here are 2 ignition switches. The top one is 5 pole 3 position (stop, run, start) battery ignition switch from Amazon.

 

The bottom one is a 5 pole, 3 position, (stop, run, start) magneto ingition switch from Oreily Auto parts.

 

My point is. Both switches are 5 pole, 3 position, identical looking switches. They are NOT the same.

Do you happen to know the part number of the new switch you installed?

I ordered it off of Amazon I’m not sure the number tho 

[Talyn walsh 2]

6 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

The easiest way to tell if you have the right switch is to look at the letters on the terminals. If you have a terminal marked with an "M" you have the wrong type of switch. If you have a terminal marked with an "I" then you have the right type of switch.

 

An "I" terminal how ever does not mean the the terminals are configured correctly. You may have to move wires around in the plug to get the correct configuration.

I have the terminal i for ignition not an m

[Talyn walsh 2]

24 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Only 1 wire   Battery +  to coil +  Thats all

Alright 

[squonk 41,154]

1 hour ago, Talyn walsh said:

The grounds wires that are on the plate that mount the engine to the frame?

yes

[953 nut 55,316]

8 hours ago, Talyn walsh said:

put the positive and negative onto the 520 battery and then put the other side of the jumper cables onto the positive and negative on the ignition coil on the 125

You may have harmed your ignition coil doing that. The "-" on the coil should be connected to the ignition points and condenser.

With a battery ignition system, the ignition points are closed the majority of the time. With the points closed and the ignition switch ON the primary windings of the ignition coil have current flowing through them and are developing a magnetic field in the iron core of the ignition coil. The moment the ignition points open the magnetic field collapses and induces a momentary high voltage pulse in the secondary windings of the coil which goes through the spark plug wire and arcs across the gap of the spark plug. If this occurs in the presence of a compressed fuel/air mixture of the proper ratio an explosion will occur within the cylinder. If this explosion occurs at the proper time in the engine’s cycle there will be pressure applied to the piston forcing it downward on the power stroke. The ignition points will continue to open further after this has occurred. How far they open is immaterial, their work has been done for that cycle of engine operation. What is important is when they open relative to the position of the piston on its compression/power revolution. If it occurs too soon there will be backfiring, too late and there will be a reduction of power. In the case of our Kohler engines the sweet spot is twenty degrees Before Top Dead Center, that is what the “SP” mark on the flywheel is set to). At the moment the points open the condenser quenches the arc across the points extending their life, the rest of the time it just sits there.

[Tuneup 1,433]

Do you have a multimeter - didn't read that you do? Don't go about this blind. 12V at the coil (+) with the ignition ON and when the key is in START. Key ON and manually turning the engine - the coil (-) should alternate between 12V and 0V. Negative lead always on the battery (-). If that's good, check that the starter solenoid is getting 12V from the ignition switch in START. Everything seems to point to an improper ignition switch as is suggested above.

[Talyn walsh 2]

11 hours ago, Tuneup said:

Do you have a multimeter - didn't read that you do? Don't go about this blind. 12V at the coil (+) with the ignition ON and when the key is in START. Key ON and manually turning the engine - the coil (-) should alternate between 12V and 0V. Negative lead always on the battery (-). If that's good, check that the starter solenoid is getting 12V from the ignition switch in START. Everything seems to point to an improper ignition switch as is suggested above.

My multimeter just came in the mail today tomorrow I’m gonna go see if I’m getting 12 volts to the + on the coil if I’m getting the 12 volts to the + on the coil and I’m still not getting spark what do I do and what do I do if I’m not getting the 12 volts to the + on the coil should I see if I’m getting 12 volts to the starter solenoid from the wire that connects the ignition switch and the starter solenoid 

[Gregor 4,846]

I think you had better take this one step at a time. Once you connected your other battery directly to the coil, there's no telling what you took out. Points? Coil?  Condenser?  If you are NOT getting 12 V to + side of coil, trace the wire back, and see exactly where you lose it. If you ARE getting 12 V to the coil with key on, I would check wiring going to the points. If it's good, I would replace points and condenser.   My worth.

[Talyn walsh 2]

36 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I think you had better take this one step at a time. Once you connected your other battery directly to the coil, there's no telling what you took out. Points? Coil?  Condenser?  If you are NOT getting 12 V to + side of coil, trace the wire back, and see exactly where you lose it. If you ARE getting 12 V to the coil with key on, I would check wiring going to the points. If it's good, I would replace points and condenser.   My worth.

Alrighty I’ll let you guys know what happens tomorrow when I go

[Gregor 4,846]

9 hours ago, Talyn walsh said:

Alrighty I’ll let you guys know what happens tomorrow when I go

While you are there, make sure your points are opening and closing.

 

I am not aware of any bench check method for this coil. Maybe someone else is.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Gregor

[Talyn walsh 2]

On 7/16/2021 at 4:45 AM, Gregor said:

While you are there, make sure your points are opening and closing.

 

I am not aware of any bench check method for this coil. Maybe someone else is.

What do I do if the points don’t open 

[Gregor 4,846]

4 hours ago, Talyn walsh said:

What do I do if the points don’t open 

report back

 

[Gregor 4,846]

Ya ever get the feeling some people are just playing?

[jonw440 187]

I just read both pages looking for progress. Then your left hanging. YEAH I HATE when people don't follow through.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

But, with all due respect, it's not like he got much help with his last question.  Should he have asked again?

[Gregor 4,846]

If I got that many answers to so many questions, I wouldn't remember the answers anyway. But that's just me. Then again, anyone could have answered him

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

13 minutes ago, Gregor said:

wouldn't remember

 

Me either!

 

On the other hand, he hasn't been back since he posted his last...

 

We call that a "drive by posting"

[Gregor 4,846]

8 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

We call that a "drive by posting"

Reminds me of a joke...

Clippity clop, clippity clop, clippity clop....BANG!

 

Whats that?

 

Amish drive by shooting.  

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Gregor

[Talyn walsh 2]

On 7/28/2021 at 9:32 PM, Gregor said:

Reminds me of a joke...

Clippity clop, clippity clop, clippity clop....BANG!

 

Whats that?

 

Amish drive by shooting.  

 

 

Ok so I have 12 volts going to the + on my ignition coil but no spark what’s my problem 

[953 nut 55,316]

6 minutes ago, Talyn walsh said:

Ok so I have 12 volts going to the + on my ignition coil but no spark what’s my problem 

Your next check should be observing the ignition points while the engine is being turned over by the starter. There should be a slight spark at the points when they first open. The time of opening also sets your ignition timing so it needs to be correct.

 

Gapping the ignition points at .020 has always been the standard answer to how points should be set. That probably will get you into the ballpark where the engine will run, but with a bit of additional effort you can improve the engine’s power and performance.

The Kohler engine manual in the Red Square files section covers two methods for setting the ignition timing, Static Timing and using a Timing Light. This manual is a relatively new manual and it overlooks the fact that many of our engines were built prior to the ACR (automatic compression release) camshaft.

Earlier engines (mostly 1965 and earlier) had a Spark Advance camshaft that can not be timed using Static timing. At rest (and very low RPMs) the timing is retarded to fire slightly after TDC. The timing mark (SP) on your flywheel is at twenty degrees before top dead center but at rest the points on these engines break about ten degrees after top dead center. The only reliable way to check or set the timing on these engines is with a timing light.

There are a couple ways to determine what camshaft you have. Presuming the camshaft in your engine is the one it was born with the data plate on the engine has a suffix that can tell you what camshaft was used. The table below will tell you the suffix applicable to your engine. The other way to determine what camshaft you have is to remove the cam gear cover and take a look. If you see a mechanism attached to the cam gear it is the ACR cam.

 

 

The following engines have the spark advance camshaft;

K-141, Suffix prior to “C”

K-161, Suffix prior to “J”

K-181, Suffix prior to “D”

K-241, Suffix prior to “D”

 

With a battery ignition system, the ignition points are closed the majority of the time. With the points closed and the ignition switch ON the primary windings of the ignition coil have current flowing through them and are developing a magnetic field in the iron core of the ignition coil. The moment the ignition points open the magnetic field collapses and induces a momentary high voltage pulse in the secondary windings of the coil which goes through the spark plug wire and arcs across the gap of the spark plug. If this occurs in the presence of a compressed fuel/air mixture of the proper ratio an explosion will occur within the cylinder. If this explosion occurs at the proper time in the engine’s cycle there will be pressure applied to the piston forcing it downward on the power stroke. The ignition points will continue to open further after this has occurred. How far they open is immaterial, their work has been done for that cycle of engine operation. What is important is when they open relative to the position of the piston on its compression/power revolution. If it occurs too soon there will be backfiring, too late and there will be a reduction of power. In the case of our Kohler engines the sweet spot is twenty degrees Before Top Dead Center, that is what the “SP” mark on the flywheel is set to). At the moment the points open the condenser quenches the arc across the points extending their life, the rest of the time it just sits there.