jonw440 187 #1 Posted July 13, 2021 My Son's C-85 has horrible steering skip. Should we replace the bushing (#12 flange bushing) at the forward end near the front axle or just add some shims to it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,751 #2 Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) You need to put SHIMS on the back ent of the lower steering shaft. These shims MUST be between the COTTER PIN (18) and the STEERING BLOCK (19)...effectively pulling the entire shaft back into the STEERING COLUMN gear. You MAY gain some by repositioning the COLLAR (26) by moving it up some, forcing the STEERING COLUMN (25) down into the Fan Gear. Edited July 13, 2021 by daveoman1966 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,118 #3 Posted July 13, 2021 Hole in steering support #19 is probably wallowed out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 16,999 #4 Posted July 13, 2021 Check the above suggestions but also take a good look at part #19. They crack near the mounting bolts to the frame which will cause the skipping condition. It can be welded for repairing but will need additional steel support because the cast is so brittle. Best to replace it if it's cracked. Turn the steering wheel while watching the components to find all of the loose tolerance steering parts 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #5 Posted July 13, 2021 9 hours ago, jonw440 said: replace the bushing (#12 flange bushing) at the forward end Just to add a little to the excellent advice by the others... The flanged bushing won't have any affect on the 'skipping' of the gears, but it can cause excessive 'free play' in the steering if it's worn real bad. It's rather a pain in the butt to get those bolts in and out and in order to change it you need to remove the steering shaft #15. When I did mine I turned the bolts around, faced the nuts to the rear instead of to the front as shown in the drawing. Made it much easier to reinstall. You'll see what I mean if/when you do replace it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #6 Posted July 13, 2021 9 hours ago, daveoman1966 said: These shims MUST be between the COTTER PIN (18) and the FAN GEAR (15) Hi Dave, I think you meant that the shims go between the cotter pin and the STEERING SUPPORT #19. There are no shims between the fan gear and the steering support. Hi Jon, Those shims are shown as #16 and #17. There are different thickness shims available, see parts list. In many cases it turns out that the cotter pin itself is worn through (even MISSING) and sometimes just replacing the pin will correct the condition. @jonw440 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonw440 187 #7 Posted July 13, 2021 Thanks for the replies! I will take a look at it tomorrow and report back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonw440 187 #8 Posted July 18, 2021 Yup Definitely a lot of play behind #19. I picked up a few different size shims and will tackle it next weekend. Thanks guys for the tip! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #9 Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, jonw440 said: will tackle it next weekend Keep us posted! Last winter some dummy (me!) was out plowing the snow and lost his steering. Turns out that dummy remembered to put the cotter pin back in but forgot to bend it over! The pin fell out, never to be seen until spring (and never did find it) but somehow the shims stayed in place. Poor dummy had to lay in the slushy snow in the dark 400 feet down an unlighted dirt gravel road fumbling around to put a new pin back in. Moral of the story... don't forget to bend the cotter pin around! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonw440 187 #10 Posted July 25, 2021 Ok I installed two .070 shims today and wow what a difference! not much slop in the steering now. I have to run to the local Toro dealer tomorrow for a few more parts and will see if they have the correct cotter pin. The cotter pin I picked up is too small.(5/32 x 1 1/2) Its to small in diameter. It holds the shims and washers fine but it wallows in the hole in the shaft. Big difference though! Thanks again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #11 Posted July 26, 2021 1 hour ago, jonw440 said: Toro dealer Tractor Supply has a pretty good selection. Cheaper than Toro! You can probably get a pack of five or ten for the price of one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,118 #12 Posted July 26, 2021 The shims fixed the slop but where was the wear? If you pulled that steering shaft out of the block, dollars to donuts that hole is wallowed out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #13 Posted July 26, 2021 19 minutes ago, squonk said: dollars to donuts that hole is wallowed out I'm not sure a wallowed out hole would cause the 'skipping' though? The shaft would have to move forward enough for the gears to disengage. Not sure a wallowed hole would do that? But sloppy free play yes... There may be a combination of wear though... and if the shims and or cotter pin were worn out in addition to the wallowed hole... On mine, most of the forward movement of the shaft and resulting disengagement of the gears was because the cotter pin was nearly worn all the way through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,118 #14 Posted July 26, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said: I'm not sure a wallowed out hole would cause the 'skipping' though? The shaft would have to move forward enough for the gears to disengage. Not sure a wallowed hole would do that? But sloppy free play yes... There may be a combination of wear though... and if the shims and or cotter pin were worn out in addition to the wallowed hole... On mine, most of the forward movement of the shaft and resulting disengagement of the gears was because the cotter pin was nearly worn all the way through. Every tractor I've had that skipped either the block was broke or the hole so wallowed the steering gear moved away enough from the fan gear. And I've had about 10 tractors that have done this. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #15 Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, squonk said: the steering gear moved away enough from the fan gear OHHHHH... the the steering wheel shaft hole! Yeah, that would do it for sure. I was thinking of the hole with the the rod with the fan gear... gotcha. Edited July 26, 2021 by Jeff-C175 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 48,815 #16 Posted July 26, 2021 3 hours ago, squonk said: ollars to donuts that hole is wallowed out. And only two fixes this or look for one that ain't. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #17 Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, WHX24 said: two fixes I've wondered why they put a grease fitting on the hole for the steering column shaft (which probably always gets overlooked and never greased anyway), but not on the lower one... Edited July 26, 2021 by Jeff-C175 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 48,815 #18 Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said: I've wondered why they put a grease fitting on the hole for the steering column shaft (which probably always gets overlooked and never greased), but not on the lower one... I have put one there just for S & Grins on some restos but the hole was never wallowed so Edited July 26, 2021 by WHX24 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,118 #19 Posted July 26, 2021 Next time I run across an egg shaped block I'll have to post a pic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonw440 187 #20 Posted July 26, 2021 Now I will have to go and look again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee1977 6,659 #21 Posted July 28, 2021 On 7/26/2021 at 11:37 AM, squonk said: Next time I run across an egg shaped block I'll have to post a pic. The wallowed out hole is more likely on models that have less support on the top of the steering wheel shaft. The 300 and 400 series have very little support there. the 500 is a little better but not much. I have fixed both 300 and 500. Don't know about the round or square hoods. Never had the problem with my C-series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #22 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Lee1977 said: Never had the problem with my C-series. I checked mine out last Fall and there was very little wear. But I'm pretty AR about greasing things. The flanged bearing at the front was worn to smithereens though and of course there's no zerk on that one. The new one gets a shot of oil now and again. I'm betting that the really worn out ones have rarely or never been greased. All the equipment I've ever worked on for others has shown almost zero signs of routine maintenance. Edited July 28, 2021 by Jeff-C175 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonw440 187 #23 Posted July 28, 2021 I checked today and there is just a slight movement. I hit the zerk with grease. It was previously lubed by previous owner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,004 #24 Posted July 28, 2021 On 7/18/2021 at 6:31 PM, Jeff-C175 said: Keep us posted! Last winter some dummy (me!) was out plowing the snow and lost his steering. Turns out that dummy remembered to put the cotter pin back in but forgot to bend it over! The pin fell out, never to be seen until spring (and never did find it) but somehow the shims stayed in place. Poor dummy had to lay in the slushy snow in the dark 400 feet down an unlighted dirt gravel road fumbling around to put a new pin back in. Moral of the story... don't forget to bend the cotter pin around! Thanks for passing that tidbit along so the rest of can gain wisdom, instead of just knowledge like you did. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
