Axle End Play

[Bill Winn 156]

Good afternoon, my recently acquired C175 has about 3/16" end play on the left axle. There is a square-head bolt on that side as well. If a season WH owner saw this what would they say, do, or not do?

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,297]

Looks like you rear seal is leaking , you should have bolts on both hubs. How is the other axle?

[WHX?? 48,815]

Normal... I sometimes put a nylon thrust washer there to take up some play. 

The bad side is the oil I see there could indicate a leaky axle seal and possibly bad bearing. Could be causing the hub to "walk". 

Jack the rear up and check the up and down movement of the axle. If more than say 1/16 or even a hair over we got problems.

Loosen that set screw and locknut and see if the hub (take off the tire) will slide right off. If it does we will want a pic of the keyway on the axle and the inside keyway on the hub. Repeat procedure on the opposite side. but if hub is tight yet don't try to take it off just check the set screw for tightness. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by WHX24

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Not sure what to tell you about the end play.  Not sure how much my machine has, been a while since I've had it off the ground.

 

You should have square head bolts on BOTH hubs.  The early hubs had only ONE set screw, in later years they went to TWO set screws spaced 90° apart due to the fact that hubs were loosening and causing damage.

 

If your hubs are still good and not 'wallowed out' (along with hopefully NOT the axle and keyway), and you have the equipment, you can drill and tap a second set screw hole yourself, or have a machine shop do so for you.

 

It appears that you do need a new axle seal, relatively easy to replace once the hub is off.  Slip the new seal in place and use the hub as a 'slide hammer' to drive it home.

 

When re-installing the hubs, it is important to understand that you can NOT get that set screw tight enough with a hand wrench!  You MUST use an 8 point socket wrench and torque it to 30 lb ft before locking down with the jam nut.

 

And, ALWAYS use NEW SET SCREWS!

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[WHX?? 48,815]

5 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

You MUST use an 8 point socket wrench

and check regularly after. 

[stevasaurus 22,739]

1/8" is normal in and out of an axle.  Like Jim said, you should have little to no play up and down or side to side.  Looks like you do need a new axle seal though.  Look for a #SKF 11050 seal at your NAPA or other auto part store.

   The axle is held in with a "C" clip...the play is between butting up to the other axle when pushing in and when you pull out against the "C" clip.  If the "C" clip was not there, you could pull the axle right out.  If you can not pull the axle out...everything is fine.   

[Bill Winn 156]

1 hour ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Looks like you rear seal is leaking , you should have bolts on both hubs. How is the other axle?

So, after a little wire brushing I found where the other set screw should have been. It was sheered off. I managed to get it out quite easily with a drill and an extractor.

The set screw appears to be a 3/8 x16. Is that correct or is there one I should order? Also pictured is the right side end play.

Bill

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Bill Winn

[stevasaurus 22,739]

End play is no big deal...some horses have almost 3" of axle showing.  What is important, the hub should be flush with the end of the axle.  These are not Corvettes, they are garden tractors.  They are built with some give and take.

[Bill Winn 156]

12 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

End play is no big deal...some horses have almost 3" of axle showing.  What is important, the hub should be flush with the end of the axle.  These are not Corvettes, they are garden tractors.  They are built with some give and take.

Excellent thank you. I ordered two seals and 4 set screws from Wheel Horse Stables. I figure I will drill and tap the hubs for the extra set screw. I drill and tap regularly in my blacksmithing so if it turns out to be standard 3/8" x 16tpi I'm already set up.

Bill

[WHX?? 48,815]

1 hour ago, Bill Winn said:

managed to get it out quite easily

Wow ... you either need to buy a lotto ticket or say an extra prayer tonite! 

Sounds like you have mechanical skill set too! 

Yes 3/8-16 x 1" you can use a jam or a regular nut. You'll find these castings to drill and tap quite easily. I like to grind a small flat spot where the nut rests on the hub. 

Some of the fellas grind a little flat spot on the axle where the second one sets too. I don't but probably not a bad idea. The set screw will dimple the axle which you will have to overcome should the need arise to ever pull the hub. 

Nothing personal against Geno over at WH Stables but most of us do our shopping here. 

Wheel Horse Parts and More

We go to church with Lowell the guy that runs it. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by WHX24
Fat Fingers

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

8 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

3/16 x 1"

 

3/8-16 x 1

[WHX?? 48,815]

8 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

3/8-16 x 1

Fat fingers 

[Bill Winn 156]

47 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

 most of us do our shopping here. 

Wheel Horse Parts and More

 

 

 

I had not seen that part of the site yet thanks for the tip.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

@Bill Winn

 

You should also be able to source those set screws from distributors like McMaster-Carr or Grainger.  And the seal is a standard SKF part number (11050???_) that should be readily available.  But that is not to say that one should not grace our friendly resident purveyor of parts with their orders!  It's what keeps them in business after all!

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, Bill Winn said:

Wheel Horse Stables

 

How can I not have found this site?  Is "Geno" one of ours?

 

https://wheelhorsestables.com/

 

[roadapples 6,983]

Used to be...

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

27 minutes ago, roadapples said:

Used to be...

 

Gotcha, thanks, minor diversion closed.

[pfrederi 17,739]

16 hours ago, WHX24 said:

Wow ... you either need to buy a lotto ticket or say an extra prayer tonite! 

Sounds like you have mechanical skill set too! 

Yes 3/8-16 x 1" you can use a jam or a regular nut. You'll find these castings to drill and tap quite easily. I like to grind a small flat spot where the nut rests on the hub. 

Some of the fellas grind a little flat spot on the axle where the second one sets too. I don't but probably not a bad idea. The set screw will dimple the axle which you will have to overcome should the need arise to ever pull the hub. 

Nothing personal against Geno over at WH Stables but most of us do our shopping here. 

Wheel Horse Parts and More

We go to church with Lowell the guy that runs it. 

 

 

 

 

Strongly recommend you do the flat spot.  There is a taper to the hub.  I tightened down the jam nut on the first one i did (didn't grind a flat spot)  and snapped the alloy set screw off.  it is still in there...next owners issue

[Bill Winn 156]

9 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

Strongly recommend you do the flat spot.  There is a taper to the hub.  I tightened down the jam nut on the first one i did (didn't grind a flat spot)  and snapped the alloy set screw off.  it is still in there...next owners issue

Lol I will heed the advice thank you

[JCM 9,166]

to   @Bill Winn      If you have a spare moment would you mind some info on the size and type of the drill bit and a picture of the extractor you used to accomplish that task. I found one on a 400 series tractor that I have been reluctant to attack.       Thank you

[oliver2-44 9,750]

No one has mentioned it yet so.... You won a small lottery getting that broken bolt out . 

The BIG WH lottery's are:

1. Pulling Hubs. They are brittle cast iron.  don't use a 3 jaw puller on the flange.  (You "might" get lucky since yours has a leaky seal that has been soaking it)

2. Steering Wheels and their roll pins.  A carbide drill bit is a start

3. Rear Hitch Pin.  A sawzall to cut the hitch pin when it's rusted tight.   

Edited June 29, 2021 by oliver2-44

[Bill Winn 156]

Thanks for those tips oliver2-44

[Bill Winn 156]

3 hours ago, JCM said:

 If you have a spare moment would you mind some info on the size and type of the drill bit and a picture of the extractor you used to accomplish that task?

Here you go. I started with a method my dad taught me on our farm when I was a kid. First I soak in PB Blaster or something for an hour or so. Then, I take a thin center punch and make a divot on the outer edge of the bolt where it's sheered off. Then I use an awl or an old ice pick to tap it in around and often this will eventually get it out. It is only after I tried all that that I use extractors.

 

In this set I used the no. 1 size and although it has a drill end I used a 1/16 bit to pilot a center punched hole before I used the drill end. After that I just put it in an impact driver and went slow.

 

I hope your hub screw is as simple to extract as was mine. Best of luck.

 

Bill

[JCM 9,166]

Thanks @Bill Winn  for the tips and procedure, I really appreciate it.         Jim

[Bill Winn 156]

Does anyone have any sage advise about replacing my axle seals? The new seals are in and I've already drilled and tapped the second se screw hole in each hub. (complete with milled flat landing area for the jam nut).

 

What's the best way to pull them.

Can I expect a loss of hydraulic fluid?

Can I use the hub to drive the new seals into place.

 

Thanks Bill