Predator 212. 6.5hp (any experience)

[Snoopy11 5,714]

On 6/30/2021 at 1:35 PM, Daron1965 said:

I recieved the top plate throttle linkage, pulse pump (relocating fuel tank), fuel filters and other odds and ends in the mail today. I will (hopefully) have everthing installed this weekend.

 

Im going to order a new cam and rod, but not sure what ones. What suggestions do you guys have?

You got a Hemi or non Hemi Predator 212? Sorry for the late reply by the way... ben busy...

 

I have personally used Item 275TSB-CLONE on dyno cams website for hemi... 

 

Item 308-PRED-TSB for non hemi. 

 

These are aggressive... it will be thumpin... running great at high rpm...

 

Go to ARC Racing website and buy item 6252 if you have checked in-the-hole clearance.

 

You can go with item 6254 if you don't know the in-the-hole clearance...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Just now, Snoopy11 said:

You got a Hemi or non Hemi Predator 212? Sorry for the late reply by the way... ben busy...

 

I have personally used Item 275TSB-CLONE on dyno cams website for hemi... 

 

Item 308-PRED-TSB for non hemi. 

 

These are aggressive... it will be thumpin... running great at high rpm...

 

Go to ARC Racing website and buy item 6252 if you have checked in-the-hole clearance.

 

You can go with item 6254 if you don't know the in-the-hole clearance...

 

Don

And yes, in case anyone thinks I am nuts... I did know those rod numbers off the top of my head... 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

5 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

You got a Hemi or non Hemi Predator 212? Sorry for the late reply by the way... ben busy...

 

I have personally used Item 275TSB-CLONE on dyno cams website for hemi... 

 

Item 308-PRED-TSB for non hemi. 

 

These are aggressive... it will be thumpin... running great at high rpm...

 

Go to ARC Racing website and buy item 6252 if you have checked in-the-hole clearance.

 

You can go with item 6254 if you don't know the in-the-hole clearance...

 

Don

Even if you do not check in-the-hole clearance, I would feel pretty confident, (like 99%) that you will be fine with the +.045...

 

Tillotson is the only engine manufacturer, that I know of, whose piston top clearances are tight...

 

Predator makes them way WAY in the hole.

 

If you had a Tillotson, my advice would be... you could grind down the top of the piston... (but only if after pulling the starter, you felt it resist/hit at the top of the stroke). instead, you can also buy a couple extra head gaskets and put together to use as spacers, if you had an issue. 

 

There are a lot of options from an engine builder stand-point. 

 

Make sure you have a 1/4 torque wrench for those rod bolts though! 170 inch pounds lubricated. 

 

One other thing about stock cast rods... they don't use very strong rod bolts. ARC uses ARP's rod bolts specifically designed for high rpm applications. Just another nugget as to why ARC billet rods are top notch.

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Even if you do not check in-the-hole clearance, I would feel pretty confident, (like 99%) that you will be fine with the +.045...

 

Tillotson is the only engine manufacturer, that I know of, whose piston top clearances are tight...

 

Predator makes them way WAY in the hole.

 

If you had a Tillotson, my advice would be... you could grind down the top of the piston... (but only if after pulling the starter, you felt it resist/hit at the top of the stroke). instead, you can also buy a couple extra head gaskets and put together to use as spacers, if you had an issue. 

 

There are a lot of options from an engine builder stand-point. 

 

Make sure you have a 1/4 torque wrench for those rod bolts though! 170 inch pounds lubricated. 

 

One other thing about stock cast rods... they don't use very strong rod bolts. ARC uses ARP's rod bolts specifically designed for high rpm applications. Just another nugget as to why ARC billet rods are top notch.

 

Don

Another nugget... on big blocks, like the predator 420... you have to clearance the cam and rod.

 

212's generally do not need cam and rod clearance, so everything goes smoothly.

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Just now, Snoopy11 said:

Another nugget... on big blocks, like the predator 420... you have to clearance the cam and rod.

 

212's generally do not need cam and rod clearance, so everything goes smoothly.

 

Don

You have some assembly lube, don't you Daron?

 

If not, I would advise getting some... Do not just use engine oil!!! 

 

Don

[suzukizone 0]

First time posting. I mounted a 212cc, 6.5HP Predator engine on a vintage Mighty Mac Shredder/Composter. Original engine was likely in the 3 HP range, I believe. 
The engine starts up fine from cold, sits and runs at least 5 min OK but when I engage the belt drive, even before putting in compost, the engine runs for 1/2 min to 3 or 4 min but then shuts down sounding exactly as if running out of fuel but bowl is full. Then won't start until the engine sits for 10-15 min. Fuel flow from tank more than sufficient to keep up with needs. Tank full, have pulled carb and cleaned thoroughly several times. The float level is not adjustable. Fuel is clean & fresh. No direct access to the vent in the cap tho have tried to be sure it's open with comp air and carb clean spray as best I could. (Have same result if I run with the fuel cap completely removed.) Spark plug looks OK, slightly dark but engine never ran long enough to heat up and burn clean. Not so dark as to fire bad tho. Good wide spark although more to the yellowish color than bright blue/white. 

When the engine does run, it sounds good and strong and when cold it starts up easily with a light pull. 

Any ideas are appreciated or if I am in the wrong forum please advise if there is a more suitable forum. 

Thank you so much. 

DH

[Snoopy11 5,714]

6 hours ago, suzukizone said:

First time posting. I mounted a 212cc, 6.5HP Predator engine on a vintage Mighty Mac Shredder/Composter. Original engine was likely in the 3 HP range, I believe. 
The engine starts up fine from cold, sits and runs at least 5 min OK but when I engage the belt drive, even before putting in compost, the engine runs for 1/2 min to 3 or 4 min but then shuts down sounding exactly as if running out of fuel but bowl is full. Then won't start until the engine sits for 10-15 min. Fuel flow from tank more than sufficient to keep up with needs. Tank full, have pulled carb and cleaned thoroughly several times. The float level is not adjustable. Fuel is clean & fresh. No direct access to the vent in the cap tho have tried to be sure it's open with comp air and carb clean spray as best I could. (Have same result if I run with the fuel cap completely removed.) Spark plug looks OK, slightly dark but engine never ran long enough to heat up and burn clean. Not so dark as to fire bad tho. Good wide spark although more to the yellowish color than bright blue/white. 

When the engine does run, it sounds good and strong and when cold it starts up easily with a light pull. 

Any ideas are appreciated or if I am in the wrong forum please advise if there is a more suitable forum. 

Thank you so much. 

DH

I don't know if this is the right forum or not, buddy... but I'll be sure to answer your question the best I can.

 

First of all... stating the obvious here... sounds like a fuel issue. Best way to check this... right as the engine is dying, spray carb cleaner or starter fluid in through the air filter and see if it doesn't stay running. I'll bet it does keep running!

 

If you want my opinion, I would buy a new carburetor. I know that a lot of guys clean these, and have good luck... but these engines do not have fuel filters, and one or more of the jets can get clogged, the little flange-like-venturi thingy can cease working properly. There are so many things that could go wrong.

 

Good idea on these engines is to take the fuel tank off and put an inline filter on it... this will prevent further issues in the future. When you take the fuel tank off to put the filter on it, take the fuel line completely off, put your finger over one end, and suck the other end. If suction is created, you have a good fuel line. 

 

Keep in mind, these engines are chinese... so not everything they build is up to quality. 

 

I would buy this from ARC Racing (16 bucks for a new, better carb) DJ-1225R

 

And if you want my opinion on fuel filters, I would buy B074C4T4WS from Amazon...

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Don

 

 

 

[Daron1965 644]

  agree about the carbs.  Sounds like fuel starvation.  

[Greentored 3,201]

On 6/30/2021 at 1:35 PM, Daron1965 said:

I recieved the top plate throttle linkage, pulse pump (relocating fuel tank), fuel filters and other odds and ends in the mail today. I will (hopefully) have everthing installed this weekend.

 

Im going to order a new cam and rod, but not sure what ones. What suggestions do you guys have?

ARC rod, and CL-1 cam is a GREAT all around/torque cam. Dont forget a pair of 10.8# valve springs.

[Daron1965 644]

Started the day by being woke up to a tiolet supply line spraying gallons of water all over the place.  Just finished cleaning up bathroom and kitchen.  I plan on getting out to garage after repairing the supply line.  What a day so far.

[Handy Don 12,161]

On 7/3/2021 at 10:09 PM, Snoopy11 said:

Keep in mind, these engines are chinese... so not everything they build is up to quality

I'd qualify this.  

These engines are built in China but NOT to rigid tolerances or specifications and that lets you buy them at lower cost.

China has a space station and nuclear weapons. The country can built at high quality when it chooses to.

[Handy Don 12,161]

On 7/4/2021 at 12:09 AM, Daron1965 said:

  agree about the carbs.  Sounds like fuel starvation.  

Sounds more like vapor lock to me.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

 

On 7/7/2021 at 10:30 AM, Handy Don said:

I'd qualify this.  

These engines are built in China but NOT to rigid tolerances or specifications and that lets you buy them at lower cost.

China has a space station and nuclear weapons. The country can built at high quality when it chooses to.

Yes, reason I said anything at all is because sometimes people can't understand why a part that is 'designed' to work, or even brand new, doesn't work or stops working. Point being, this is something that happens on these engines due to poor parts and manufacturing in China. Quality is not always there.

 

I think... if a cheap item is manufactured cheaply in China... chances are that the item will be chintzy. Doesn't mean it can't be fixed when something goes wrong... but you have to realize what you are dealing with... a Chinese product (Chinese with all that the title entails). 

 

Lower cost to consumer = lower cost in manufacturing. Lower cost in manufacturing = questionable quality.

 

That is in itself.

 

Not to mention, extreme el-cheapo parts... which is bad news for carburetors... thus why they tend to go bad.

 

Why these engines, even Honda, never had a fuel filter, with the flimsy/tiny carbs... I will never know...

 

Don

 

 

 

 

Don

 

[Handy Don 12,161]

42 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

a Chinese product (Chinese with all that the title entails). 

Not to belabor the issue, but I do not agree here.

 

Consumers of the world have indicated a willingness to buy for price and accept lower quality standards. Intelligent and insightful people in China (both in industry and government) have taken notice are responding to that to their benefit. Chintzy and Chinese are not equivalent in my vocabulary. I've been quite satisfied with many products produced there that were absolutely fit for purpose and of adequate quality for the service I needed. I have considerable respect for the finely calibrated approach many Chinese manufacturers use when engineering and producing products.

 

That said, I regularly am willing to pay to get higher quality products when I know I'll expect more from the tool or appliance and I'm also very frustrated at many Chinese firms' appropriation of intellectual property without compensation to the owners of that property and their exploitation of peoples for labor. As a result, I am careful about what products I buy from there so I can avoid supporting these practices.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

13 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Not to belabor the issue, but I do not agree here.

 

Consumers of the world have indicated a willingness to buy for price and accept lower quality standards. Intelligent and insightful people in China (both in industry and government) have taken notice are responding to that to their benefit. Chintzy and Chinese are not equivalent in my vocabulary. I've been quite satisfied with many products produced there that were absolutely fit for purpose and of adequate quality for the service I needed. I have considerable respect for the finely calibrated approach many Chinese manufacturers use when engineering and producing products.

 

That said, I regularly am willing to pay to get higher quality products when I know I'll expect more from the tool or appliance and I'm also very frustrated at many Chinese firms' appropriation of intellectual property without compensation to the owners of that property and their exploitation of peoples for labor. As a result, I am careful about what products I buy from there so I can avoid supporting these practices.

 

I am by no means saying that all Chinese items are chintzy... (if that is the tone I gave, I apologize). But, I am saying that Chinese made engines are not equivalent to other engine manufacturers. I know this from personal experience with all kinds of engines. Even warranties are often different between the engines. 

 

Predator engines are generally under 100$...

 

I have physically taken these engines apart and compared each one, including Honda, Tillotson, Champion, Troy, Massimo, Duromax, Predator, Briggs and many others. There are also Chinese no-name engines out there for purchase on Ebay. Will one engine run better than the others...? Will one engine last longer than the other...? This is debatable. Many parts are interchangeable between the above engines. BUT, do you trust an engine's quality if it has been designed, all parts manufactured, and assembled in China? Some people do because... 

 

#1... the engine fits their needs

#2... the engine is cheap

 

But... this is also where things get dicey... as quality and longevity are called into question. For an under 100$ engine... most people don't care how long it lasts, as if it doesn't last, they will merely buy another. You say yourself that people are willing to sacrifice quality for price. This is fine... just be prepared to replace it or parts on it if needed. I have done this myself, and it is my advice to other people. I have never had an issue with my Honda, Massimo, or Champion engines, whereas my predator has had issues in the past. Just my experience.

 

I think my whole point is... there is a reason these engines are cheap, and replacement parts are cheap. Knowing this, it might create more incentive for people to buy these engines, as they can afford to buy and fix them. 

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Thread might seem kinda dead... but did you ever get this running, Daron...? Your project engine, I mean?

 

Don

[Daron1965 644]

On 8/3/2021 at 6:43 PM, Snoopy11 said:

Thread might seem kinda dead... but did you ever get this running, Daron...? Your project engine, I mean?

 

Don

Yes, sorry for late response.

 Its running good. I put it on a 655 roller I had.  Its at my sons house. Hes using it to pull some small downed trees out of his wooded area for his bonfires.  Lol.

It will come home in a few weeks, and Im thinking of tearing it down and doing a cheater cam, rod etc on it. These little motors are so much fun. Easy enough that even I can dig into it and have fun.