Newbe questions about implements

[Jrain 276]

So with the help here I have been able to get my scrap yard find just about ready to start a transformation to make this c120 Hydrostatic  in to strictly a gravel road maintainer ,So far I have had  some feed back here that a mid mount blade was the way to go ,So I plan on doing that if I can find one ,If I can not I will be building a mid mount  blade so I will be looking for advice on that ,I also plan on building a land leveler scraper or box blade type of pull behind attachment , my first question is ,Should I add a 3pt hitch or not needed pros and con,, I already started collecting some steel and other goodies I found at my scrap friends place yesterday , I saw he had some 6 inch well casing there I was thinking if I cut a 60 inch piece then sliced it in half it would make a good stout Blade what do you guy think , I also found some hydraulic stuff and took that home already ,a pully driven pump , tank , spool and cylinder I will post a picture here tell me your thoughts if you think its a possibility to make it adaptable . 

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Why not just add factory hydraulic lift to the C-120.  It is easy to do, if you can find the parts.  I've sold many of the kits over the years, but am now out of stock parts to make the add-on.  Add-on kit # 8-4113 shown here:  

[953 nut 55,112]

8 hours ago, Jrain said:

I will be building a mid mount  blade so I will be looking for advice on that ,I also plan on building a land leveler scraper or box blade type of pull behind attachment , my first question is ,Should I add a 3pt hitch or not needed pros and con, In my opinion you will be better off with a tow behind box blade that attaches to the trailer hitch ball and has caster wheels behind the blade and the hydraulic lift to operate it. If a box blade were on a three point hitch the weight of the blade when in the up position might be too much for the weight of the tractor and you wouldn't be able to steer it., I already started collecting some steel and other goodies I found at my scrap friends place yesterday , I saw he had some 6 inch well casing I think that would make a great blade if you can get a good straight cut. there I was thinking if I cut a 60 inch piece then sliced it in half it would make a good stout Blade what do you guy think , I also found some hydraulic stuff and took that home already ,a pully driven pump , tank , spool and cylinder I will post a picture here tell me your thoughts if you think its a possibility to make it adaptable

 

[Jrain 276]

9 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

Why not just add factory hydraulic lift to the C-120.  It is easy to do, if you can find the parts.  I've sold many of the kits over the years, but am now out of stock parts to make the add-on.  Add-on kit # 8-4113 shown here: 

 

If I can find the parts I would have no issue in adding this kit , but it seems that finding add on for these tractors are very hard to come by , if you do get get these parts back in stock please let me know . I appreciate your info and diagram 

[Handy Don 12,167]

My $.03 worth on grading.

If your goal is flattening and smoothing a surface that is only mildly rutted or heaved, then a mid-blade is a good choice.

If you need ditching or crowning, you need a blade that can tilt as well as rotate and there isn't much room under a WH to mount something like that so a rear mount makes more sense. (None of the standard WH blades tilt.)

Hydraulics may not give you the precise control you seek for manipulating a grader blade. WH cylinders typically extend or retract in a second or two--they were intended for "up or down" use (do the calculations on your potential add-ons for flow volume). Grader blades aren't usually very heavy and the manual lift with a solid link on a mid-mount gives you both fine control and down pressure.

 

[Jrain 276]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

 

Yes I have looked at few of those wheel type pull behind box blades , I see most companies who make them are pretty much on the same page ,but with some degree of different design  .  Being I have a back round in steel fabrication and have a G3 welding cert ,I can fab one easy enough , but will have to take the time to understand the geometry and principle on how these boxes work and then I can tackle the fabrication of one , I am glade you think some well casing would make a proper blade for the mid mount I also grabbed a few old snow plow cutting edges ,do you think I should add a cutting edge to the well case half ,or would it be ok just to let the casing do the cutting. Thanks for your input ,I am learning a lot here .

[pfrederi 17,676]

10 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

My $.03 worth on grading.

If your goal is flattening and smoothing a surface that is only mildly rutted or heaved, then a mid-blade is a good choice.

If you need ditching or crowning, you need a blade that can tilt as well as rotate and there isn't much room under a WH to mount something like that so a rear mount makes more sense. (None of the standard WH blades tilt.)

Hydraulics may not give you the precise control you seek for manipulating a grader blade. WH cylinders typically extend or retract in a second or two--they were intended for "up or down" use (do the calculations on your potential add-ons for flow volume). Grader blades aren't usually very heavy and the manual lift with a solid link on a mid-mount gives you both fine control and down pressure.

 

 

 

Agree total with not using a hydro lift with a mid mount grader blade.  Had the mid mount on a hydro too hard to make fine adjustments quickly.  Would lift the rear wheels .  Switched it to an 8 speed manual lift much happier.  Can control down pressure more easily.. Blade isn't heavy to lift.

[Handy Don 12,167]

This thread has some images of a pull-behind and a home-fabricated, rear mount with tilt.

If you search further on grader, tilt, rear mount, and similar terms you'll find even more.

[Jrain 276]

52 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

My $.03 worth on grading.

If your goal is flattening and smoothing a surface that is only mildly rutted or heaved, then a mid-blade is a good choice.

If you need ditching or crowning, you need a blade that can tilt as well as rotate and there isn't much room under a WH to mount something like that so a rear mount makes more sense. (None of the standard WH blades tilt.)

Hydraulics may not give you the precise control you seek for manipulating a grader blade. WH cylinders typically extend or retract in a second or two--they were intended for "up or down" use (do the calculations on your potential add-ons for flow volume). Grader blades aren't usually very heavy and the manual lift with a solid link on a mid-mount gives you both fine control and down pressure.

 

Ok so I understand that and makes good sense to me , I have no rutting issues and good trenches, its not perfect but I try to keep the road as good as I can , my goal is to keep it that way ,the most important thing to me is keeping a good crown and keeping the gravel locked in on the road as best I can . So manual operation on a mid mount will give me better control , but lacks tilt for crowning , So I assume building a pull behind grader box with ability to tilt will give me what I need as far as keeping the road crowned and smooth , and I can use the mid mount to help in certain situations , I do have a old Dyna-hoe  backhoe /loader its a beast I use for the trenching and bigger tasks ,but its just to big to use it for the general up keep of the gravel .

[Handy Don 12,167]

I think you are on the right "track" 

You are starting from a good place and it's maintenance now.

Your task is scraping the gravel that's been pushed to the fringe back into the wheel tracks as well as keeping an overall crown so the water goes to the swales/trenches and doesn't pond on the roadway. Probably a periodic scrape of the vegetation on the edge, too.

A 5-7 degree tilt will be enough. And you're not moving a lot of material so a 6" high blade should be plenty. The well casing idea is neat, but I'd be concerned that the blade might be too curved. Grader blades have quite flat profiles to prevent them from "carrying" too much material laterally along the blade--the goal is to redistribute the material, not shift it entirely to one side. Maybe cut ⅓ or ¼ of a larger diameter pipe? Or join two 3" flat bars to form a slight concave. If wear becomes an issue, bolt on a cutting edge later.

A 55" wide blade (and your WH has enough giddyap for that, especially with a hydro for speed tweaking) will extend a couple inches outside the tractor's track on both sides even when rotated. 

If you are up for some collaboration and bent on fabrication, I can see working together to design a mid-hitch mounted blade capable of modest tilt/rotate with the idea that two of them get made!

Importantly, WH had two styles of "mid" blades. One attached to the mid-hitch and "dragged". The other attached to the rear transaxle (like a front plow or tiller) and "pushed". The latter was capable of more serious material displacement or working in rocky/dense soils.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Handy Don

[Jrain 276]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I think you are on the right "track" 

You are starting from a good place and it's maintenance now.

Your task is scraping the gravel that's been pushed to the fringe back into the wheel tracks as well as keeping an overall crown so the water goes to the swales/trenches and doesn't pond on the roadway. Probably a periodic scrape of the vegetation on the edge, too.

A 5-7 degree tilt will be enough. And you're not moving a lot of material so a 6" high blade should be plenty. The well casing idea is neat, but I'd be concerned that the blade might be too curved. Grader blades have quite flat profiles to prevent them from "carrying" too much material laterally along the blade--the goal is to redistribute the material, not shift it entirely to one side. Maybe cut ⅓ or ¼ of a larger diameter pipe? Or join two 3" flat bars to form a slight concave. If wear becomes an issue, bolt on a cutting edge later.

A 55" wide blade (and your WH has enough giddyap for that, especially with a hydro for speed tweaking) will extend a couple inches outside the tractor's track on both sides even when rotated. 

If you are up for some collaboration and bent on fabrication, I can see working together to design a mid-hitch mounted blade capable of modest tilt/rotate with the idea that two of them get made!

Importantly, WH had two styles of "mid" blades. One attached to the mid-hitch and "dragged". The other attached to the rear transaxle (like a front plow or tiller) and "pushed". The latter was capable of more serious material displacement or working in rocky/dense soils.

Yea the radius on 6 '' of the curl is a lot that is why I bought up the idea , I have access to my friends scrap he has a lot always coming and going I did see a few truck snow plows but do not know if they are tough enough , I am sure I will find something that works for the actual Blade , as far as the frame work along with  tilt and swing  I think as far as getting a tilt, I think as you said a certain amount of tilt is obtainable , As long as I can scavenge up enough material for 2  builds I certainly welcome you and your input ,it not like I am bent on fabricating the mid mount or any other implement ,If I could find one I would buy one ,but it seems from the research I have done they are hard to come by along with other things that I will need to have for my rear mount pull behind  box scraper / land leveler  . I am building a one trick pony so the way I see it is the more implements I can put on the WH for gravel the better off Both I and the WH will be . I already have almost everything I need for the pull behind I plan to build .