Forward is Backward and Backward is Forward

[SteveInCA 3]

After 4 transmission (part 5089) tear downs and reassemblies in 6 months, my Wheel Horse 1973 model 1-0435 14 HP with Hydrostatic Transmission is moving backward when I engage it to move forward and vice versa.  On the first three tear downs to replace a leaking 1-1/8" ID seal (part # 6449) the rebuild and subsequent driving worked normal.  But on the fourth tear down and rebuild, forward is backward and backward is forward.  I've assembled it the exact same way each time and so I'm at a loss on why this is happening.  My local mechanic who helped me find the right replacement part for 6449 is puzzled as well and after looking at the schematic does not see how/why this is happening.

 

I have a theory and want to see if anyone has a similar experience, or other ideas...  I tried to turn the by-pass valve (part 103460) on the hydrogear when pushing the tractor back to garage 25 feet after it would not restart (I over came that issue).  Since I could not turn the by-pass valve (I have not been able to for several years), I had to push a few feet and then pause so the wheels would turn.  Did I damage something by pushing it without the by-pass valve open?

 

My first thought was the plastic Cam Part #5996 was put on upside down.  But it only properly goes on one way with the Pin - Cam Block part #6127 which is down toward the frame.

 

Also, what direction does the "Arm Cam Follower" (part 5994) move when the tractor moves forward?  From a sitting position on the tractor is it right is forward?

 

Net - mechanically I believe all is installed as it should be and I suspect I've damaged something inside the Hydrostatic Pump that is causing this reversed movement behavior.

 

Any thoughts and guidance?

 

Steve

[daveoman1966 3,752]

I can only imagine...did you remove the CHARGE PUP HOUSING, then bolt it back on backwards?  

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by daveoman1966
WRONG PICS

[SteveInCA 3]

Hmm - maybe.  I'll look at that tomorrow when I have some daylight.  Here's a picture of the charge pump housing that I believe you are referencing.  I did wonder, but forgot until you reminded me, if there's a proper up or down for this housing.  Inside it is slanted with the 8 or so pistons for pumping the fluid.  I'll let you know what I find and if this is it, then I'm impressed with your reply being so quick, targeting something I thought but forgot, etc.  Thanks for the pointer.

 

Steve

[pacer 3,169]

Yeah, IIRC you just turn that housing - happened to me a few yrs ago and I believe thats all you need. Heh, I remember what a shock it was when I got ready to back out of the shop and WHOA!!  good thing I was several feet from my work bench, was almost a disaster when it went forward.

[daveoman1966 3,752]

My apology...I posted parts of a HYDRO-GEAR and your is obviously a piston-to-piston system. Correcting all my comments, 

[Handy Don 12,231]

DANG you guys are good, @daveoman1966 and @pacer. Nice work!

[Ed Kennell 38,175]

                                                         

[Pullstart 62,879]

@SteveInCA   you can expect that kind of response time most always on this forum.  It’s the best in the world!

[rjg854 11,361]

[8ntruck 7,004]

 to the forum.

 

If you have broken something, several folks here have also broken the same thing and fixed it - depending on what was broken, there will probably be several 'fixes' presented.

[SteveInCA 3]

To echo @Handy Don, dang you guys @daveoman1966 and @pacer are good.  Rotating the Hydro Housing 180 degrees fixed the issue.  I guess mechanically if the fluid flows backward the tractor goes backward regardless of the driver's intent.  Thank you again for such a quick reply and expert advice!!!

 

Next up for me is to fix the starter and tune up the Kohler engine.  For the starter it just spins out of gear sometimes and a rotation with a screw driver typically does the trick.  But I think my days of that hack are about up.  I've found the following at isavetractors.com and YouTube that are giving me inspiration to keep the old gal running on.

• Starter:  https://isavetractors.com/10-tooth-high-mount-starter-for-kohler-k-series/
• Engine Tune:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btBG9RpGkdo&list=PLwvK0KSANhqBJHhBnJhhC9WQT2qLJcHoa

Steve

[c-series don 8,707]

It’s been said before but this is the nicest bunch I’ve guys you’ll ever meet. Some guys have a niche for certain things or era tractors and that’s what makes this place special. Nobody is judgmental and if they are they are not here long. I’m very happy to see our Red Square family has helped yet again another person who will save one of our beloved tractors. 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

 to   

[oliver2-44 9,750]

You might consider rebuilding your Kohler starter with parts from here.  

https://www.bantasaw.com/catalog/viewproduct.asp?i=1475&p=5140

 

Last year I found a similar kit from a vendor on ebay, but I don't see it now. 

[pacer 3,169]

Yes, you oughta consider a rebuild on your starter, its really quite easy -- and will be much cheaper that a new/rebuild! (and you'll feel good about it)

 

There are 3 ... common? problems with them -- The bad one is that the magnets will break/shatter and that pretty much does it in. The other 2 are the brushes will wear out (the 'kit' that @oliver2-44 referenced) and from you description, #3 is likely yours - and that is the 'Bendix'. Both of these are liberally plentiful on the bay.

 

I just replaced the bendix/drive on a K532 twin and IIRC was about $20-30 when I got in there I saw that the brushes was worn badly worn so I was able to replace those too, IIRC around $15-20. (Be SURE to count the teeth on the bendix!)

 

You will have to cobble up a simple tool to allow you to get the brushes held down on reassembly (I can find a picture of it off hand)

 

[johnnymag3 2,520]

Maybe the shaft needs to be lubed as described in the service manual?

[oliver2-44 9,750]

The kohler overhaul manual has a good section on starters.  it has a diagram of a very simple/easy "brush holder" you can make/bend out of light sheet metal.  Remember to only use a dry graphite for lubricant on the starter bendex and bushings.